older mercury outboards vs. older johnsons

[jbjennings]

I have been wondering after owning many used and and a couple of new outboards which some of you other boaters think is the best and why. Here's my experience:

2004 mercury 4-stroke 15 hp-- no power, weak chrysler-style force lower unit, didn't keep long enough to see durablility, but that lower unit is suspect and I think everyone can agree that force motors stink, check their resale value.
1999 johnson 30hp-- I still own it and it runs perfectly after lot of hours. however, it breaks several parts in the transom bracket every time I hit the tiniest stump if I don't keep the shallow drive release up. starts really easy.
1970's 3.9 mercury-- ran great for a while but quit. leaky lower unit as well, cast iron rusty pitted drive shaft.
1984 johnson 15 hp--ran it for almost infinite miles and was worn completely out but still ran good when I sold it. best motor I ever owned.
1972 mercury 9.8-- great running outboard, but has cooling problems that I can't figure out, leaky lower unit-replaced every seal except for shift shaft seal which does leak--will replace it soon to see if it'll finally stop leaking. you have to bang out the bearing carrier with rubber hammer to get it out--don't like to beat on pewter! wish I hadn't bought it.
1957 18 johnson-- awsome motor even though it has a lot of hours, runs perfect, easy to work on, ignition and lower unit, and carburetor--still own and use
1955 7.5 evinrude-- great motor, have to pull powerhead just to change waterpump however. this fixed on later year models. still own, runs perfect
1953 hp johnson-- great motor,runs perfect, easy to work on but never needs it.
1972 mercury 20 hp--- most powerful 20 ever, ran perfect but once again-- rusty pitted drive shaft, leaky lower unit. very sad to get rid of it but lower unit as usual was stinky.
1984 25 merc. --- shift linkage in handle caused reverse gear engagement trouble --- shift in handle is bad engineering but they kept it for several years. still own it, bought it 'cause it was practically new and wanted the boat it was on. boat is awesome ('84 duracraft 14-6)
1987 25 merc (dad's motor) always hard to start, even after cleaned carb, shift in handle caused trouble again, made my dad so mad he threw the cowl in red river once. sold it for parts years ago.

My opinion, and I think I have hurt the mercury guys feelings by mentioning it on a post, is that johnson motors are the best choice for used, especially older ones (late fifties) They are easier to work on although you rarely have to, better lower units, better drive and prop shafts, better ignitions, easier starting carburetors. Their points, coils, etc. fit a huge number of their lower hp outboards over many years. Mercury ignitions are complex, they changed them up almost every year, they are notorious for their carburetors getting hard to start around my area, have bad cast iron drive shafts and finicky cooling systems. Once again, I am speaking of older mercs vs. older johnsons, not the newer stuff. So go ahead--- bawl me out and get it over with merc guys---
Anyone else have an opinion?
jbjennings

 

[jasonh]

Re: older mercury outboards vs. older johnsons

I've owned three Johnson/Evinrude motors - a 1960's 18hp, a 1974 65hp, and my current 1976 85hp.

The 18hp was a flawless engine and I ran it hard for several years. It performed just fine when I sold it and I'll always remember that motor fondly.

The 65hp was great until a sliver of piston skirt or ring came off and punched a hole in the block. It was the lower piston and the top 2 kept running, so despite the catastrophic engine failure I made it across the lake that night. That engine had a LOT of hours on it, so I kinda gave it a pass.

My 85hp feels very powerful and although it sucks gas like no ones business, it has run perfect all year.

I have never had a lower unit issue with either of the motors. Prior to purchasing my 85hp, I looked at a Mercury 90 horse. It ran and looked ok, but for some reason I had a better feeling about the Johnson. I know to avoid Force motors at all cost, but had never heard anything either good or bad about Mercury.

Money being no object, I'd re-power with one of those new E-Tecs in a second. I don't even know what my second choice would be.

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: older mercury outboards vs. older johnsons

Hey JBJennings, here is my position: I used to hate Mercs but now luv the old high power anchors.

#1 They are real cheap up here in God's Country, (Seattle area).

#2 They are very powerfull for the weight of the motor relative to the Johnyrudes or others.

#3 They look very good.

That said: they are cheap fer a reason(s) many you have stated. I use mine almost exclusively in fresh water, where the risk of a breakdown does not threaten me life or the lives of me luved ones. If I used them in salt water I would go with Johnnyrudes or Yammadingers. If price were no problem I'd buy a new Yammadinger on a small boat and a new IO, (prolly twins) on a larger for salt water rig. Sadly me portfolio is not the size of RubberFrogs' so I have to luv the old black boat anchors. I have a bunch of inline sixes that start well and run well and can kick the sh** out of a comparably equiped old or modern outboard regardless of what ya got.

The inlines have a lot of parts that interchange, (kinda like a "small block Chev"), so runnin' 'em fer long periods of time is real real cheap, if ya don't mind pickin' up a wrench from time to time. The cooling systems are flawed as you state, but easy fer ol' Murky to keep his eye on, and I have not torched one yet, (although my son torched a very high hour 1968 1250 by runnin' high rpms for a prolonged time in cold water), that broke me heart, as the carbs were still virgins n' she ran hard fer me from 1986 to 2005. Many many care free hours, and was she a killer in any boat race that any Johnnyrude owner cared to try me with!!!

The fuel systems are also weak but fairly easy to keep on top of. Mine all start real easy, n' run very well.

I have three 25 HP back boat anchors, (from mid 1980s to a 1996), that also likely would outrun any comparable Johnnyrude or Ydinger. I don't like the goofy shift on the tiller handle either. Mine all start n' run real good.

The Mercs generally run or can run at higher RPMs then the Johnnyrudes n' dingers out there which if ya keep yer foot to the wall will likely result in less engine life then other makes all other things bein' equal. That is why they tend to "rule" the speed department as well.

I have a 1976 6 hp Johnnyrude that is a great motor, I had a 1974 25 hp Johnnyrude that ran and ran and ran, and was worn out when I sold it but still ran well.

Bottom line. If I want to troll fer long periods ya can't beat an ol' small Johnnyrude, n' I don't have any 'sperience with small black anchors. If ya wanna ski or fly hard on a lake somewhere on a fairly light boat ya better cornsider an ol' inline. If ya wanna put yer life on the line out on a real large puddle somewhere, I'd cornsider a fairly new or low hour Y'dinger or Johnnyrude. My $.02 JR

 

[jbjennings]

Re: older mercury outboards vs. older johnsons

I have to agree that the mercs are fast and definitely the sharpest looking out there, now or in the past. That's why I bought that darned 9.8 recently-coincidentally from the seattle area. I wish I could find a good one-- they're as rare as pearls. Can't say I have any experience with the bigger ones.
I think from my experience I'd be better off steering clear of them-- my merc knowledge is insufficient for these boogers.
jbj

 

[Turin]

Re: older mercury outboards vs. older johnsons

I own a 70's 25 hp evinrude runs like a beauty.but has some stupid things like a broken down starter cord i need to open the hood to start it (ok its a little small plastic part that needs replacement but its inst easy available in Holland)
had a 1995 5hp yamaha before ran great to never had any trouble (except broken down propeller my own fault fell asleep and hit you know what)

 

[PW2]

Re: older mercury outboards vs. older johnsons

I've had a Merc 9.8---completely worthless in salt water environment. Had a mild steel drive shaft that would dissolve between water pump changings--expect to change the drive shaft if you needed a water pump replaced. I don't care how much fresh water flushing you did

I had a 50 hp Merc. I would have used it as a boat archor if there was any steel left in it. Collosal piece of junk.

Years ago, we did an informal survey while walking on the tide flats of Useless Bay on Whidbey Island in Puget Sound. We counted 118 outboards on various boats archored there. 115 Johnson/Evinrude, 2 Mercs, 1 Other.

There's a reason they are cheap in the Seattle area. They are completely worthless in a salt water environment!

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: older mercury outboards vs. older johnsons

Hmmmm PW2, Guess that is why the Alaska fishermen don't like 'em either. Glad I use mine on a Lake. The prices are for a reason as ya say. JR

 

[bassboy1]

Re: older mercury outboards vs. older johnsons

When I am gonna be on my local river, which is dam controlled, I NEED it to start. Ya see, there is a spillover dam a few miles down the river, and if I were to go over that, I could be in big trouble. I have to get back to the ramp before they start generating. If I have to trust a nonreliable motor, I could be screwed. Also, I mostly boat in big lakes, and often the ocean. I need my motor to be a reliable motor. I would rather idle back with a slow, but reliable OMC, than drift away with a super fast merc that I can't start.

 

[PW2]

Re: older mercury outboards vs. older johnsons

When I am gonna be on my local river, which is dam controlled, I NEED it to start. Ya see, there is a spillover dam a few miles down the river, and if I were to go over that, I could be in big trouble. I have to get back to the ramp before they start generating. If I have to trust a nonreliable motor, I could be screwed. Also, I mostly boat in big lakes, and often the ocean. I need my motor to be a reliable motor. I would rather idle back with a slow, but reliable OMC, than drift away with a super fast merc that I can't start.

The Hondas, as well as Yamahas and no doubt other Foreign made motors, are reliable, as well as a reasonably cared for OMC.

The same can not be said of Mercs, in my experience. And if you operate an old Merc in Salt Water, and if you plan on working on one, be prepared to drill out numerous bolts that break when you try to remove them.

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: older mercury outboards vs. older johnsons

.....well I'm partial to the mercs myself but the Johnsons were never far behind overall.


That said....lets face it, every guy wants a bigger Johnson.

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: older mercury outboards vs. older johnsons

When I am gonna be on my local river, which is dam controlled, I NEED it to start. Ya see, there is a spillover dam a few miles down the river, and if I were to go over that, I could be in big trouble. I have to get back to the ramp before they start generating. If I have to trust a nonreliable motor, I could be screwed. Also, I mostly boat in big lakes, and often the ocean. I need my motor to be a reliable motor. I would rather idle back with a slow, but reliable OMC, than drift away with a super fast merc that I can't start.

In fresh water the inline Mercs I run have been reliable for 40 years or so, (dunno 'bout you: Bassboy but that's a long time fer a 'virgin' [never been cracked], motor to run: VERY reliably). They always start when I hit the key, they do require that you have at least one brain cell to watch the telltale, listen to the way they power up, (similar to an old Johnnyrude). If ya keep the fuel filters uncloged, the fuel n' water pumps in good shape, run 89, (I used to run 92 before iboats educated me), decarb from time to time, fog at the end of the season, they are very reliable in fresh water or I would not run them for many many 1000s of hard hours..

My brother in Cordova Alaska, (and his fellow commercial fishermen), hates them probably for the reasons PW2 states. Some of my parts motors are salty and I think PW2 is spot on about the salt problems on the old ones. That all said, I bought a screamin' n' very good lookin' 1979 115 in 2001 or 2 for a whopping $500, with corntrols that has only had the fuel pump n' plugs changed since that time. It literally explodes when ya hit the key every single time without fail (including the first torch of the season with the fogging oil in her).

Ask Bro Haut about that motor, (he was favorably impressed, I'm fairly sure). It will blow the doors off any comparable Johnnyrude et al. It has a 'hole shot" for an ol' outlaw water skier (210lbs on a early 1990s "Kidder redline") from a deep water start that my friends' 140 Johnnyrude on a comparable boat wishes he had. N' if I put the hammer down guess which boat walks away? Hint: it is not the Johnnyrude!

They are what they are. If ya run in fresh water dollar fer dollar pound fer pound, (n' there easy on the eyes too), I do not think you can beat them, and if ya try: plan to view the stearn untill they walk away from ya, n' ya can't see 'em anymore, 'cause they fly.

If you boat on salt water, I would be guided by PW2's observations, as I lack the experience with them in a salt corndition. Respectfully, JR

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: older mercury outboards vs. older johnsons

They are what they are. If ya run in fresh water dollar fer dollar pound fer pound, (n' there easy on the eyes too), I do not think you can beat them, and if ya try: plan to view the stearn untill they walk away from ya, n' ya can't see 'em anymore, 'cause they fly.

Sounds like you haven't run upon any Etec's yet. Have they made it out to where you are?

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: older mercury outboards vs. older johnsons

Sounds like you haven't run upon any Etec's yet. Have they made it out to where you are?

Yah, they are here BB, n' purdy impressive too, I might add!! "Pound fer pound" my friend. Those are me words, n' I stand by 'em. You get any comparably rated Etec on a comparable boat n' I'll blow 'em into the weeds, (not even close although closer then some of the heavy OB engines out there). I may torch the old girls with the RPM's I'll be turnin' but they will be lookin' at me stearn till somethin' lets go!!! Ya should have seen me 1968 Carlson 14 footer with the 1250 short shaft. It may not be as fast as SBN's but I'd smoke him outa the hole bad enough that his 5 mph edge would take time to catch me. JR

 

[Limited-Time]

Re: older mercury outboards vs. older johnsons

Back in the day it was black on race day. White whenever ya had to get there.....

 

[Scaaty]

Re: older mercury outboards vs. older johnsons

Love my old Tower of Power (complete rebuild) on my little Flatbotton dragboat
My old Johnsons (small motors) are forever..
Can't beat a 2hp Rude Mate..weighs less than an oar (and can probably use it for one if it quit!)
Old Johnsons (metal heads) were ugly, but towed in the old Mercs just fine
Can't beat a 350 SBC
Old Force 125 runs fine (at least it has 5hp Honda kicker next to it to keep it in line)
They all have a place...
(and Volvo outdrives hands down..have a 30 year old 280 behind a SBC that is like new..only way you can tell its in gear is the boat starts moving)

 

[klicknative]

Re: older mercury outboards vs. older johnsons

Die hard Johnyrude man here.

 

[woodrat]

Re: older mercury outboards vs. older johnsons

My whaler has vintage 1968 johnsons, 40 and 4. That four is almost bombproof and the only trouble the big one ever has given me is from electrical and shift mechanisms getting salty.

I LOVE the yamahas. I was originally skeptical since I have a few yamaha motorbikes and had lots of mystery electrical black box troubles on them, but these engines on the skiff are awesome. I use them in salt a lot and I do flush them. I made about an 80 mile round trip from the home port out to the ocean and back today, and I was loving that 60.

The only trouble I have is that the kicker (4 stroke 9.9) is too big for the boat, so always idles and eventually fouls the plugs. I need about a 6 for this boat.

Those big six cylinder mercs sure look and sound cool, but I have often seen them anchored up somewhere with the cover off and the wrenches out.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: older mercury outboards vs. older johnsons

Sounds like you haven't run upon any Etec's yet. Have they made it out to where you are?

Yea, right.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: older mercury outboards vs. older johnsons

Oh yea, outboard discussion non repair forum.

 

[jbjennings]

Re: older mercury outboards vs. older johnsons

my dad just bought a brand new 2-stroke yamaha e-start stainless propped 25 yamaha and loves it. got it for under 3000, tax and all. heard other good things about 'em. you say you like those 4-strokes? i'm not much on 'em but maybe they'll grow on me. do like what i've seen on the gas mileage, especially with it being so high. they're so darned heavy, though. i guess we better all get to liking 'em since the 2-strokes are a thing of the past. i'm hoping to see an e-tec in 25 hp. i hear good things about the bigger ones. i worry that bombardier is making them now-- if i'm correct on that. heard they are outsourcing some of their important parts to India. stuff from India and China seems to be unreliable junk on the average.
the japanese do make good stuff--i had a 79 yamaha xs400 streetbike in the early 90's and loved it but started clowning on it and figured i'd better sell it before it killed me.
later,
jbj