Old mercs...Reverse????

asr2001

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After reading the following and getting your advice i just might not be turning the Lower shift Shaft far enough to find the reverse. Should I use a set of vise grip type pliers to see if it will travel further than by hand...?

On the lower unit's shift shaft, forward is like 350 degrees of the travel area and neutral and reverse each have only 5 degrees of the travel area. So it's easy to get it in forward and a little tricky to get into neutral or reverse. - Spin shift shaft counterclockwise with your finger until you encounter resistance - Start turning the drive shaft clockwise (easier with a helper) and use pliers to turn the shift shaft a tiny bit counterclockwise into the "difficult to get into" area. The first region will be neutral, the second will be reverse, and then you go back into drive again. There is only a tiny fraction of a turn between forward and neutral, between neutral and reverse, and then everything else is forward again. When the lower unit is off, it is absurdly easy for the unit to spring back into fwd from either neutral or reverse. I reassemble my lower unit in neutral based on the advice of others here

The only weird thing is that to get the Lower S/S into the difficult to get into area it seems that i am turning it by hand clockwise. After a bit of resistance ( Minimal that is) and a small click the prop will turn either way ( Neutral) Should i now use pliers to see if it goes a bit more and reverse may be there....I am assuming that if the oil is clear reverse should be there as it was before the impeller change and no damage has been done.
My wifey threw away some of my notes from our Tele conversation what was the type of manual that i sghould look for? is this the correct one......?

Mercury Outboards, 90-300hp, 6 Cylinder, 2 Stroke Models, 1965-1989 by seloc???
Anyone's advice on the topic stated would be greatly appreciated
 

OldMercsRule

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Re: Old mercs...Reverse????

I would get a general manual, (hopefully limited to inline sixes from the 1960's to 1987) and the Mercury shop manual for the 1350. Don't mess with things too much until you get the manuals or verify what caused the that actual problem, (reversed cables or cams inside the control box). Check and or replace the gear oil in the lu and look for filings. Make sure you have good o rings on the filler and vent plugs when you tighten them back up. I bet this turns out to be a minor problem, (at least one would hope). JR
 

asr2001

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Re: Old mercs...Reverse????

OMR,

replaced the L/U lube and there was alomost NO FILINGS at all. maybe a bit more than the size of the head of a pin. replaced with fresh lube also. While i was at made sure all the gaskets were solid as well. Ordered several extra O Rings and a magnetic lower drain screw just to have a spare as well. I am waiting on my Seloc manual and the Original Manual from the 1350. I e mailed you some pics of my Girl......You are now a proud God-Father.....LOL
 

asr2001

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Re: Old mercs...Reverse????

Ok Had her on the water today...Seems that we fixed one completely which is great and the other stayed the same.....Now on my controller when I push it forward the boat goes ahead and when i bring the controller astern i go astern, So we fixed the controller problem by aligning the splines when we replaced the L/U back on....HOOOORAY the controls are fixed, that is why the cables never looked wrong.
Reverse is the same thing she will rev and run in gear but it still sounds like a nascar running in neutral revving the engine but the boat barely goes in reverse.

the issue with the controls had to do with where they were centering the Lower shft shaft for their reverse, its a small amount of rotating play for revers and neutral..

tO TRY AND FIX THE REVERSE WE ARE GOING TO WORK WITH THE CABLES FROM THE CONTROL BOX AND TIGHTEN THEM UP A ...sorry for the caps...bit and remove any slack and see if that helps first. If not tghen we will have to drop the L/U again and move it by 2 splines and hope that will engage correctly...I am begginig to wonder if the hub is slipping....

Anyone have any seasoning they would like to throw in this soup?
 

OldMercsRule

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Re: Old mercs...Reverse????

I would say you still have a problem with the control box. Do NOT rev your engine without a load on it!! Very hard on it. I have some spare control boxes that I don't want to part with but could if you can't find another one, or fix yours. I don't think I would drop the LU, I would fix the control box. JR
 

asr2001

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Re: Old mercs...Reverse????

OldMercs....
Sorry when I say reving, i should have said when in the water not with the Muffs, I don't race it out of the water, Maybe once in a blue moon when I have low water pressure ( i have a well) I may have to give it a bit O' gas just to get the water goin....
Thanks...So far you have not steered me wrong..I will not drop the L/U at all now that we have it back up.... Question..? I am under the assumption that the prop will spin in Neutral especially when flushing with the muffs due to not having a load on it, But how fast or slow should it be turning...My has a spin on it a bit faster than i think it should....

So if i understand you correctly you think that its the controller that is causing the reverse issue..? Even though now forward is forward and reverse is reverse...just weird how it came full circle after I replaced the lower unit.....

Will have the Tach today...When in Neutral it should be between 500 and 750 is that correct or basically under 1k..

I have still been looking for a replacement controller but have had no luck, I will keep trying though,

Thanks
\Adam
 

asr2001

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Re: Old mercs...Reverse????

Could this be my issue besides the controller that i am still looking for by the way.......



the reverse gear clutch dogs are probably rounded off...if these motors are used with a poor reverse gear engagement it will happen...they will feel fine like you say, until you put a load on the prop an then the clutches bounce off each other instead of engaging..
 

OldMercsRule

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Re: Old mercs...Reverse????

Could this be my issue besides the controller that i am still looking for by the way.......



the reverse gear clutch dogs are probably rounded off...if these motors are used with a poor reverse gear engagement it will happen...they will feel fine like you say, until you put a load on the prop an then the clutches bounce off each other instead of engaging..

I am amazed that an adjustment on the lu shift linkage down at the lu would turn the shift throttle control action around. If it works properly (except the engagement of reverse) it sounds like an adjustment of the shift cable is in order, (that is back at the engine on the port side). You may have it set up so that the throw is not long enough to fully shift the motor into reverse and it could have caused damage to the gears, (hard to tell). Try to adjust the cables, before taking things back apart. If you can't adjust the problem out try out yer spare lu and see if ya have reverse again. Does not sound like you need another controller since the upside down shift throttle combination you were previously experiencing went away. Very strange, never had this happen to me. JR
 

asr2001

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Re: Old mercs...Reverse????

OldMercs,

Roger that. I will try to adjust the Reverse throw and hope that I did not wear out or damage anything. After i do that and place her back in the water i will post here. Good thing was that when i dropped the gear Lube it was clean with no sign of metal....

Maybe the Shift shaft on the lower unit was olways spun in the opposite direction, When they used to change the impeller they always replaced it the same way it was removed...Either way the forward and Neutral are fine..

By the way...turns out that the lower unit i was looking at picking up had some issues so i refused to take it out of a possible concern...I will just keep looking...If push came to shove found a rebuilder that sells them refurbed and shipped ( No prop and minus the gear lube for 600.00
Now the only question i need answered is that when in neutral I know the prop will have a spin, How much of a spin should it have. i would assume it would look like more of a spin with the muffs on than in the water with a load..Correct? Also just so i know what should the RPM's be in neutral as the tach arrived this AM and i will connect it when i get home. i want to throw on the muffs and see if she is correct, Being i wont have time to get into the water fer a few days unless i can escape the Honey do list

Adam
 

OldMercsRule

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Re: Old mercs...Reverse????

OldMercs,

Roger that. I will try to adjust the Reverse throw and hope that I did not wear out or damage anything. After i do that and place her back in the water i will post here. Good thing was that when i dropped the gear Lube it was clean with no sign of metal....

Maybe the Shift shaft on the lower unit was olways spun in the opposite direction, When they used to change the impeller they always replaced it the same way it was removed...Either way the forward and Neutral are fine..

By the way...turns out that the lower unit i was looking at picking up had some issues so i refused to take it out of a possible concern...I will just keep looking...If push came to shove found a rebuilder that sells them refurbed and shipped ( No prop and minus the gear lube for 600.00
Now the only question i need answered is that when in neutral I know the prop will have a spin, How much of a spin should it have. i would assume it would look like more of a spin with the muffs on than in the water with a load..Correct? Also just so i know what should the RPM's be in neutral as the tach arrived this AM and i will connect it when i get home. i want to throw on the muffs and see if she is correct, Being i wont have time to get into the water fer a few days unless i can escape the Honey do list

Adam

Adam, I don't have my manual handy here right now for idle rpms. Maybe someone else can help. That said: YOU NEED A MANUAL that has the answers to all these very basic questions you are asking. Concentrate or focus your energy on one problem at a time. Get the manual before doing anything else. When ever I work on a 36 year old engine I always assume something will happen that will purplex me when I dissassemble any component of the old engine, (break bolts; create problems with shifting et al). I then tackle each issue and complete the fix before I compound my job by digging into something else that may be over my head, (especially if I tackle the project without a manual). Rule: if something ain't broke don't fix it! (Scaaty may disagree here, or so I understand). :D Tackle the project one step at a time. Solve the cable adjustment issue first, (which is a relatively simple adjustment). I don't think your LU is bad, (just a guess), it seems to be an adjustment of the shift cable at this point. Don't buy extra components yet, (yer lucky the other lu did not check out). (If you find a very cheap parts engine, (with lots of GOOD usable parts) that would be an exception to my present advice). Good luck JR ps please let me know the source of the rebuilt lu when i call ya later today!
 

asr2001

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Re: Old mercs...Reverse????

OMR,
Thanks for the call. I do appreciate all the time. I am taking things one Item at a time, I guess I may have rushed things a bit. Never thought I'd get into it like this, Just thought I'd buy it use it and whatever happened happened, Boy I WAS WRONG....I think i am addicted to this motor after all of this

Anyway, Manual ordered and on way like we spoke of. Tach came in mail today...Will post again once i have had a chance to adjust the cable and so on,

Adam
BTW...Sent ya an e mail with a link to another L/U that I saw that i thought was very cheap, let me know if ya get it
 

Scaaty

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Re: Old mercs...Reverse????

Never thought I'd get into it like this, Just thought I'd buy it use it and whatever happened happened, Boy I WAS WRONG....I think i am addicted to this motor after all of this

Don't feel bad, similar thing happened to me at 5 years old with an old Mark 20 Merc from my older brother...I'm 57 now, and still at it..
(and loving every minute!):D
(DAMN...didn't know what I had there either!...yep, gold and green):mad:
 
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