oil in bellows on penta 270

[travisherl]

I noticed oil leaking from the upper bellows on my volvo/penta 270. I ordered the bellows and seals that I need but I need to know if there should have been oil in the bellows anyway. The oil was very watery but all of the metal inside looks like brand new so I think I caught it right away. Questions are should there be oil in there? If not where did it come from? Do I need to do anything to lube the U-joints when putting this back together?

Thanks
Travis

 

[diesel1960]

Re: oil in bellows on penta 270

I had same problem last year,found upper unit seal gone,remove upper unit,replace the seal,water may enter upper unit and damage
bearings.
With upper unit out you will have good acces to u-joints,to service them.

 

[travisherl]

Re: oil in bellows on penta 270

Thanks. I will do those repairs if I need to but does anyone know of any other possibilities? There is no play in the shaft and the rubber seal around it looks like brand new - I know it's not new but all metal, rubber, and paint looks perfect in there. Is it possible that the oil came up from the outdrive? I have the o-rings for that and they look worn. Also on the ujoints - I have it apart and have access to them but I don't know if they need to be lubed or how or what to apply. Any help on that would be appreciated.

Thanks
Travis

 

[Maclin]

Re: oil in bellows on penta 270

Oil in the driveshaft bellows comes from the drive. If it is dripping out then the bellows leaks which means water can get into the bellows and this can hurt the drive seal over time. Hard to say if water got to the seal or the seal failed on its' own. However, the seal is designed only to keep oil in and not to keep water out, that is what the bellows is for. Since now the bellows can drip fluid out then it seems logical that water has been entering for a while and the oil seal has let water in and oil out.

 

[travisherl]

Re: oil in bellows on penta 270

Sorry if i sound like an idiot but I'm confused about the terminology here. When you say oil comes from the drive I'm thinking out drive but then you reference a seal that I believe is at the top where the shaft comes out. So I'm still confused as to whether the oil would be coming from inside the boat where the shaft comes through or from the outside the boat up through the upper unit and into the bellows. The boat has been in the water for less than an hour this year and I believe I caught the leak immediately. There was just a little water in there when I pulled it apart and I'm not even sure it would have had enough in it to get up to the drive shaft. There was no rust anywhere. The hole in the bellows is small enough that I can't even find it. I just noticed a drip and knew it was old so I decided to change it. I'm just trying to find out if the O-rings and seals I replaced on the upper will stop the oil from coming into the bellows or if the oil in there definitely means a problem around the shaft. I'm also still looking for answers on lubrication of the Ujoint. If anyone can simplify things like they are talking to someone that is looking inside his first drive bellows I would appreciated it.

I also have heard that some people will put some oil in the bottom of the bellows to alert of leaks. Does anyone know how common that is? I'm just looking for some different possibilities here because there was really no sign of oil leaking out of the red housing.

Thanks
Travis

 

[Maclin]

Re: oil in bellows on penta 270

The seal I mention is in the drive, where the driveshaft yoke is. The drive oil level is up that high.

There is no oil seal in the red part, just bearings and races and grease, not oil. The drive bellows is supposed to keep all of that protected from water.

If oil is coming out of the red part then the engine has a serious crankshaft seal or other oiling issue and would be showing low oil pressure I would think, along with oil level dropping.

 

[diesel1960]

Re: oil in bellows on penta 270

Your outdrive upper unit (gear box on the very top of your propeller) oil seal , which keep oil around the shaft in that gearbox failed ,it is only rubber circular lip,and have tendency to fail especially when not in used ,or aged.
Remove that unit and use grease gun to lube u-joint.

 

[travisherl]

Re: oil in bellows on penta 270

Thanks. I did replace the large o-ring and the smaller o-ring that go under the upper unit. The small one was flattened on one side so I'm assuming that's where my oil problem was. Now, lets just say I got ahead of myself and put this all back together before I thought about greasing the Ujoint. Is there a way to grease those without taking it all back apart? If not do you think I could get away with another weekend or two at the lake this year then pull it apart again before next year? When I do it I'm assuming there is just a regular grease fitting on the Ujoint right?

Thanks
Travis

 

[captmello]

Re: oil in bellows on penta 270

With all due respect, This thread is hard to follow, If you found drive oil in your bellows, you've done nothing to fix the problem.

Oil from the outdrive in the bellows comes in though the upper gear assembly, which you have removed, and apparently just reinstalled. Glad you used new orings, you always should.

To fix the oil leak, the upper gear box will need to be resealed by an experienced tech.

imo.

 

[PiratePast40]

Re: oil in bellows on penta 270

IMHO, the way to identify the leak location is to perform the pressure test described in the manual.

 

[travisherl]

Re: oil in bellows on penta 270

Sorry, I have no idea. I'm just trying to figure out where the oil came from and it seems we have some different opinions. I'm more confused now than when I started. I appreciate everyone's efforts I'm just not sure who's right or if everyone is saying the same thing and I'm just not understanding it.

 

[dypcdiver]

Re: oil in bellows on penta 270

The only place you can get oil from is the outdrive and from what you have written the "o"rings sound as if they were doing their job having a flat side means they have been compressed. OK so that only leaves the oil seal at the top of the outdrive where the rotating shaft enters the gear box. Take the gear box off again and give it to a reputable boat shop for them to replace the seal. Furthermore grease the "u"joints at the same time, they have grease nipples on them, which I would have expected you to have noticed.

 

[travisherl]

Re: oil in bellows on penta 270

And yet another opinion. I see boat guys are about the same as every other group. If you ask 10 people you get 10 answers . To one guy a flat o-ring means it's working and to another it means it's worn out. I can't find a reputable boat shop around Louisville Kentucky that wants to touch a Volvo/Penta for whatever reason. That's why I'm trying to do this myself. Thanks again for all of the thoughts. I will try to sort through all of them and try to come up with a plan.

Thanks
Travis

 

[Maclin]

Re: oil in bellows on penta 270

All of the answers are about the same exact thing.

 

[PiratePast40]

Re: oil in bellows on penta 270

Travisherl, Here's a schematic of the gearbox:
View attachment Drive 270.pdf

Many people are referring to the o-ring shown as Ref #24. That o-ring is installed into a grove on a thick washer (Ref# 23). Sometimes that o-ring will deteriorate and cause a leak.

edit; thought I'd add a liittle more on a common scenario for that washer. As others have indicated, if there is water in the bellows, it can cause rust on that washer. The rust then cuts the o-ring and lets oil escape into the bellows.

BUT, you don't know for sure if that's the case. That's why I'm recommending that you do a pressure test. Another possibility is a leak between the clamping ring and the housing or corrosion of the clamping ring itself.

View attachment drive pressure test.pdf


The "oil" you're referring to can also be thin grease from the flywheel cover bearings. We just can't see it that well from here. Here's the description and instructions for the flysheel cover seals and bearings:
View attachment Flywheel cover bearings.pdf

 

[travisherl]

Re: oil in bellows on penta 270

Thanks for all of that PiratePast40. At least it makes some sense now. Schematics help a lot. Now the only problem is that it doesn't look like a DIY job and I can't find anyone to work on it.

 

[PiratePast40]

Re: oil in bellows on penta 270

It's up to you if you want to take on the task yourself. It can be a DIY item but mesing up rusted fasteners can lead to some expensive repairs. Believe me, I know :redface:!

I'll send you a PM.

 

[diesel1960]

Re: oil in bellows on penta 270

that's right

All of the answers are about the same exact thing.