No Title for my motor - Help Please!!

[learningasIgo]

So I picked up an old Johnson motor a while back that was locked up pretty cheap to see if I could get it going. Told the guy I would get a bill of sale from him if I got it running (mind you, I've known this gentleman for about 15 years). Reason being: the title was burnt up in a house fire about five years ago and never replaced. Well, long story short, the motor was never titled in his name, but in his fathers name - who is now deceased (was at the time of the fire as well). Nothing ever went through probate, so there was no executor or estate to be executor of.

That all said, here in Missouri, they can't do anything without getting a replacement title first. So, I am wondering if it's possible for me to send a bill of sale to someone in another state that doesn't require titles for outboards (such as Kansas) and have them "register" the motor there and then "sell" it back to me. Any ideas or someone willing to help me out with this would be greatly appreciated. I got this motor freed up and running and now I can't legally use it until I solve this issue. Please help if you can. Thanks.

 

[henrye718]

Re: No Title for my motor - Help Please!!

you need a family member in another state to do this for ya. this smells of scam to anyone reading it. not saying thats what it is just sounds so.

 

[learningasIgo]

Re: No Title for my motor - Help Please!!

you need a family member in another state to do this for ya. this smells of scam to anyone reading it. not saying thats what it is just sounds so.

Wow, certainly not trying to scam anyone here - don't know how I could - but, okay. Just asking for advice on how to get a title for the motor that I have put time and money into to get running and trying to find any loop holes that some of the more experience boaters out there may know about. Yes, I have family in Kansas (that's why I mentioned it), but they don't know the "ins and outs" of this sort of thing as they are not boaters. Hoping someone knows the answers here and how to go about this.

If anyone DOES have some USEFUL advice, please post it as I am sure I'm not the only one to ever have a situation like this. Or, if you don't want to post here, please PM me if you have some info that might help.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[starcraftkid]

Re: No Title for my motor - Help Please!!

Title for an outboard? How many states require titles for outboards?

Here the motor is just part of the boat, no title or paperwork at all.
That would be like buying a car and having to register the motor separate.

Doesn't MO have some sort of rule in place for just such instances?
What would happen if someone moved there from a state with no titles with a half dozen boats and motors?

 

[bonzoscott]

Re: No Title for my motor - Help Please!!

Contact your Department of Natural Resources and ask them. Here, as long as it has not been reported stolen, you merely apply for title and you get it in 30 days.

 

[bassman284]

Re: No Title for my motor - Help Please!!

I found the linked pdf listing title requirements. 7 states title outboards but of course they are mostly different in that there are at least 5 different horsepower standards among them.

titling requirements

Just like with boats: some states require all boats to be titled, others only require boats over a certain length. Be nice if they could all get together.

 

[MTboatguy]

Re: No Title for my motor - Help Please!!

Weird, we don't even register, let alone title our outboards here in Montana and I have never lived in a state that did!

There are some really different laws out there!

Being honest with you, after going through our title laws, we don't even have a provision in the statutes to register an outboard motor, I called them and asked and the phone went dead! for a minute, then she asked me what I was talking about! I guess, I would be in a heck of a fix if I moved to MO!

 

[bassman284]

Re: No Title for my motor - Help Please!!

I guess you could contact a license office and see what they say.

The problem with getting a bill of sale from a non-title state is if they can look up the ID number of the motor and find that it was once titled in MO. Then you'd have some 'splainin to do.

 

[JBow]

Re: No Title for my motor - Help Please!!

Here is something to think about that may work for you as well as it has for me. I am located in the state of Ohio and they require titles for motors over 10 HP. We also have a title for the boat. I did not have to show a motor title to register the boat. I think they did ask what size motor it was but did not really need the title for a boat registration. So I just registered the boat and then put any engine I wanted on it and nobody checks or asks anything about it. I have even been stoped by the DNR guys at time or two , once to tell me to buy a launch permit and once just to look at my boat because they thought it was a cool looking boat to be so old. NO ONE has ever asked if I have a title for the motor or cares. I would only need a motor title if I wanted to sell it which I dont so its no big deal. If I wanted to title a motor with no paper work here all that one really needs is a hand written receipt saying you paid cash for it. Like : joe blow paid 50 bucks cash for old boat motor and signed by joe schmo etc. You get the idea. We just say we bought it a flea market in a non title state. They do a quick check to see if the numbers show up as stolen or any previous owner info and if its clean your good to go. Anyway.. it worked for me maybe it will for you too.
Good Luck, Jack

 

[roscoe]

Re: No Title for my motor - Help Please!!

JBow, he has to title and register his outboard, and put a registration decal on the outboard to use it.


I find it very disheartening to read that you must pay a registration fee, and a titling fee for your outboard, in addition to the sales tax and the "processing fees," and certificate fees.

Just spent 10 minutes reading most of the boat/outboard titling, registration, county tax, notarized this, manually adjusted that, certificate something, to many damn hoops to jump thru in MO.

Remind me never to move there, or visit with my boat for more than 59 days.

You are pretty much up a creek.

Give it back, or sell it out of state on ebay.

 

[pine island fred]

Re: No Title for my motor - Help Please!!

That is the motor I sold you the last time you were in FLORIDA. Send me the info and I will send you a signed receipt, can even have it notorized. FRED

 

[bassman284]

Re: No Title for my motor - Help Please!!

Point is, this motor was already titled once in the state of Missouri. If they look up the serial number, that old title will show up.

 

[starcraftkid]

Re: No Title for my motor - Help Please!!

Point is, this motor was already titled once in the state of Missouri. If they look up the serial number, that old title will show up.

Who's to say that the last owner didn't sell it to a non title state? They would have no way to prove that they didn't.

For example, if I lived in MO, owned an outboard with a title, sold it to a guy in say NJ, who would most likely toss the MO title, then the guy in NJ sells it back 2 years later to a guy in MO, who are they to say the old title info is still valid or not?

In NJ, we don't title trailers under 2500lbs, meaning that most boat trailers don't get a title. I've often bought trailers from PA, who does title their trailers, kept the title since if I took it to our DMV, I'd lose it in lieu of only a NJ registration card. If after I sell that trailer, it gets sold here with only a bill of sale and the old registration card. If it makes its way back to PA, that title still has the last owners name on it. There's no way I could have transferred it into my name as an owner since we don't title trailers here, we only register them. It seems like the same scenario could arise with motors in MO.

 

[bassman284]

Re: No Title for my motor - Help Please!!

Good point, starcraft. and since Kansas doesn't tile OR register outboards, a bill of sale should be the only document needed.

 

[ThePartsMan]

Re: No Title for my motor - Help Please!!

A friend of mine ran into this. His dad gave him an old boat motor and trailer and he can't use them in OK yet.

Also the reason mine is a 9.9.

 

[learningasIgo]

Re: No Title for my motor - Help Please!!

Thanks to all for your suggestions and posts. To answer a few questions:

1. Yes, owning anything in Missouri is a nightmare.
2. Size doesn't matter in MO (pun intended). We have to title ALL outboards. To top that, they just recently made it so we don't have to title trolling motors anymore. I actually recently bought a trolling motor for which I received a title along with it.

3. In MO, trailer, boat, and motor all have seperate titles AND must be registered seperately. Boats are registered for 3 years at a time, trailers I think are up to 2 years at a time, and outboards are a one time registration for life of ownership.

4. I am going to go the route of an out of state bill of sale as a member in KS has generously offered to help me out with that and it worked fine with the motor that I bought from my parents which had come from KS and was never titled in MO. The trick with this one will be whether they stir up a problem with the old title.

Thanks again to all.

 

[DECK SWABBER 58]

Re: No Title for my motor - Help Please!!

Sounds like that will work but if you don't want to stir up any trouble at all their is a easy way to fix this. I deal with a lot of titles in Illinois (car dealer), all you have to do is apply for duplicate (lost) title in the deceased father's name. Then have the son sign his father's name. Or if they still have a certified copy of his death certificate just attache that and no signature is required.

 

[Dave Barnett]

Re: No Title for my motor - Help Please!!

I live in MO myself and this past year I tried twice to title an outboard that I bought from it's original owner. Original owner still alive and more than willing to help.
He bought the motor new back in 51 which was before titling and registering became law. He no longer had the original dealers bill of sale or paperwork. Long story short the state nixed it and we were informed that HE would have to be the one to get a title. They strongly hinted that a lawyer was going to be needful to get that done.
After talking with a host of dealers and a legal beagle I was told the process could take anywhere from 6 mo. at a min. up to 4 years.
By going to the DVM they recorded the motors serial and model #'s and informed me that if they were run again before the proper channels and paperwork etc. was presented that I could be guilty of fraud. In the end it wasn't worth the red tape and malarkey for a 1951 motor that I only paid 200.00 for.
MO is truly one of the worst states for getting lost or replacement titles. As for getting a motor titled out of state and having it re-sold to you... MO requires a previous registration on out of state motors (if it was never registered your out of luck). The #'s will be run and if they show up as ever being registered in MO (before your out of state sale)your up to your neck in trouble.
This is all info that I gathered from the head office in Jefferson City so my motto now is No title? No sale.

 

[learningasIgo]

Re: No Title for my motor - Help Please!!

Sounds like that will work but if you don't want to stir up any trouble at all their is a easy way to fix this. I deal with a lot of titles in Illinois (car dealer), all you have to do is apply for duplicate (lost) title in the deceased father's name. Then have the son sign his father's name. Or if they still have a certified copy of his death certificate just attache that and no signature is required.

Problem is that in MO, death certificate means nothing without probate. Since the motor didn't go through probate, it opens a whole new can of worms if you try to apply for a lost title. As for no signature, not in MO. Here, in the case of death, it must be signed by the executor of the estate. Since there was no estate to go through probate, there was no executor....so that's out.

 

[learningasIgo]

Re: No Title for my motor - Help Please!!

I live in MO myself and this past year I tried twice to title an outboard that I bought from it's original owner. Original owner still alive and more than willing to help.
He bought the motor new back in 51 which was before titling and registering became law. He no longer had the original dealers bill of sale or paperwork. Long story short the state nixed it and we were informed that HE would have to be the one to get a title. They strongly hinted that a lawyer was going to be needful to get that done.
After talking with a host of dealers and a legal beagle I was told the process could take anywhere from 6 mo. at a min. up to 4 years.
By going to the DVM they recorded the motors serial and model #'s and informed me that if they were run again before the proper channels and paperwork etc. was presented that I could be guilty of fraud. In the end it wasn't worth the red tape and malarkey for a 1951 motor that I only paid 200.00 for.
MO is truly one of the worst states for getting lost or replacement titles. As for getting a motor titled out of state and having it re-sold to you... MO requires a previous registration on out of state motors (if it was never registered your out of luck). The #'s will be run and if they show up as ever being registered in MO (before your out of state sale)your up to your neck in trouble.
This is all info that I gathered from the head office in Jefferson City so my motto now is No title? No sale.

Kansas doesn't title or register outboards to my knowledge, so I am hoping it won't be a problem. We'll find out soon enough.