No answers on my Force problem.

[rustyr]

I've read a hundred pages of the Force related threads, and didn't see one that dealt with my question. I've put in some serious reading time here in this forum, trying to find out what to do before posting a thread. A few days ago, I gave up and posted a thread asking for your help....but I haven't had any response to that thread yet, so I thought I'd give another shot.

I'm about ready to begin adjustments with a 14 lb. sledge hammer....you know, apply a little force to the Force.

I'm 35 miles from the nearest "marine/small engine mechanic"...(who, by his own admission, hates to work on Force motors), and I'm about 2 hours from a good mechanic. So, I really need to fix this myself, but just don't know what to do.

I would truly appreciate any suggestions....what can I do to fix my motor?

I've had the boat and motor for about 10 years. It has always run great until several months ago. As far as useage, I run it about an hour or so almost every weekend from late February until late May....then maybe an hour every other month or so. So, even though it's a little ole, it doesn't have that many hours on it.

Here's what it's doing:
Spits at idle...but it runs great at 1/4 throttle and higher. And, it dies after it spits 2 or 3 times.

Here's what I've done over the past several months:
Cleaned the plastic gas tank and refilled with fresh fuel mix and Sea-Foam...replaced fuel line and primer bulb...installed new plugs...cleaned the carb....had the "anti-Force" (LOL) mechanic clean & rebuild the carb, and check the fire & compression on both cylinders.

Nothing has helped. I've almost swamped my boat when loading it in a high wind. Once, I got side-ways on the trailer because the motor quit (took 3 men, a boy, and an old lady, to get it straightened back out), and I've slammed the dock hard several times....the cussed motor just spits and dies, and I can't steer or stop the boat. If there's a wind blowin, I'm a dangerous ole man just lookin for somethin to ram into! LOL.

My fishin buddy told me that I didn't need life jackets in my boat....said I needed a roll-bar and helmets! LOL.

Come on guys, talk to me.
rustyr

 

[pnwboat]

Re: No answers on my Force problem.

What year HP motor? Might be helpful. 2 cylinder, sounds like a 50 HP or so?

Looks like you've pretty much gone through the most obvious things. You stated that the "mechanic" rebuilt the carbs. Did he set the idle mixture with motor running in gear in the water? May make a difference. Mixture screws generally are about 1 1/4 turns out from being lightly seated all the way in. Final adjustment depends on your individual motor.

There have been several recent post regarding the exhaust leaks affecting idle quality. Not sure if your motor has one, but the larger motors have an exhaust boot that directs the water/exhaust mixture out from the mid-leg to out side the motor on the back. If the boot has become unseated, or torn, the exhaust fumes build up inside the cowl around the carbs. The carbs in effect are sucking in exhaust fumes which affect idle quality. When you're moving at higher speeds, you have more air circulating in and around the engine/cabs so it doesn't affect it.

 

[JB]

Re: No answers on my Force problem.

Far, far too many words, rusty. And you didn't even tell us what engine you have.

You will get more help if you simply state your problem and its history, state what engine you have and what you have done so far.

Do you have a Service Manual? Get one.

I don't know Force engines specifically, but when a 2 stroke spits (coughs) it is almost always because it is too lean at that time. When that happens it is often a carburetor problem (many "cleanings" and "rebuilds" fail to solve the simple problem of getting tiny passages and orifices clean).

 

[rustyr]

Re: No answers on my Force problem.

Thanks for your feedback guys. My motor is an '88 model, 35 H.P. Force. I do have a Force Outboard Tune-Up and Repair Manual.

I'm pretty sure that the mechanic did not put the boat in the water to adjust the carb. His shop isn't near a boat ramp, so he probably just used water muffs. Good advice...I'll put it in the water tomorrow and adjust it....I'll let you know.

As to the exhaust boot, where would it be located, and how do I check it?

Thanks for your help,
rustyr

 

[CharlieB]

Re: No answers on my Force problem.

Ditto, dirty idle passages in the carbs

And the idle mixture screws, once set IN GEAR IDLING ON THE WATER also need just a scoosh more fatter.

ANY hesitation when you slam the throttle WOT from an idle, add more idle mixture, just a hair at a time, til ALL traces of hesitation are gone.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: No answers on my Force problem.

Looked at the break down for your motor. Doesn't appear to have the exhaust boot like the larger 4 cylinder motors. No need to worry about that. Sounds more like idle mixture and or idle speed adjustments. Pretty simple, but read the manual and make the final adjustments in the water.

 

[rustyr]

Re: No answers on my Force problem.

I've still got the idling problem...even after putting the boat in the water, getting it up to temp, and adjusting the idle with it idling in forward.

I repeated the procedure several times. But every time I got it idling pretty well, then ran it at WOT for a couple of minutes, it would spit and die when I came back to idle. It made no difference whether I came back to idle slowly, or quickly.

What should I do next?
rustyr

 

[pnwboat]

Re: No answers on my Force problem.

Don't lose hope, still a few things to check.

1. Take a look at the carb adapter plate/reed valve assy. Remove the carb and look into the hole. There is a gasket that runs around the perimeter of the adapter plate assy and the intake. If no obvious broken gasket, you may need to remove the adapter plate/reed valve assy. or further inspection. There are probably eight stainless steel screws that hold this whole assy in the intake. There are two gaskets that may be leaking. When you remove this assy, it'll probably damage the gaskets (items 5 & 8 in link below) and they will have to be replaced. Also check the reed valves (item 10)themselves for broke or bent ones. http://www.crowleymarine.com/mercury_parts/1250/70.cfm

2. You mentioned that you re-filled the tank with fresh fuel mixture with Seafoam. Do you still have the Seafoam in the tank? Sometimes these engines do not like to run well with Seafoam in the tank. Depends on how much you put in. Try it without any Seafoam if you hven't already done so.

3. When was the last time you changed the fuel pump diaphram? They are relatively cheap and easy to change, although most common symptom of bad diaphram is poor runing at higher speeds. It's hard to tell if one is bad by looking at it, unless it actually has a hole or tear in it.

 

[rustyr]

Re: No answers on my Force problem.

Thanks for all your help, pnwboat. It's so good having guys like you who don't mind helping a fellow boater with problems.

I bought a fuel pump repair kit from iboats some time back, but have never installed it....guess now might be a good time, huh? LOL.

On the Seafoam....I mixed a full 16 oz. can with 6 gal of 50:1 mixed gas, and still have about 2 1/2 gallons left in the tank. Should I drain the tank? A friend had told me it was a good idea to run Seafoam all the time....but I've noticed it really smokes a lot more than usual.

Also, did I screw up on the mixture? Should I have used less oil in the mix when using the Seafoam?

Thanks again,
rustyr

 

[pnwboat]

Re: No answers on my Force problem.

I would try the easiest least costly things first.

1. Try a fresh tank of 50:1 fuel mix without the Seafoam. 1 can for 6 gal of gas seems a bit much for normal running. I think instuctions on the can state that for normal running in a 2 stroke, it should be 2 OZ per gallon. not 100% sure because I don't have a can in front of me. Doesn't apper that adding the Seafoam changes the need for mixture adjustment. If you don't want to dump the 2 1/2 gallons you have, just add some fresh gas to it and 1/2 pint of TCW-3 oil to it. That should dilute the Seafoam mixture. I would recommend dumping the gas though. With the cost of gas these days, not sure if this is the least costly thing to do!!!

2. Change the fuel pump diaphram. One other tip. you might want to consider adding a fuel filter between the fuel pump and carb. One of those cheap in-line see through filters. Cheap insurance to prevent crud from getting into the carb.

3. Checking the reed plates would be the last thing I would do since it will probably require replacing the gaskets which you will most likely have to order.

 

[rustyr]

Re: No answers on my Force problem.

1. I'll go ahead and drain the tank and mix fresh gas....I can burn the Seafoam mixed gas in my old '77 chevy pick-up (it'll burn anything, and lots of it!)

2. Good idea! I'll get an in-line filter today.

3. I'll have to wait till tomorrow afternoon to tackle the fuel pump rebuild...."High Command" has me working in the yard this afternoon. LOL.
I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks again,
rustyr

 

[rustyr]

Re: No answers on my Force problem.

Hi pnwboat,
Sorry to be so long getting back with you...had a lot going on.

I followed your recommendations and did the fuel pump rebuild, and installed an inline filter...3 weeks ago.

I finally got the chance to put the boat in the water yesterday afternoon, and it ran like a new motor....IT'S FIXED!

Thank you soooo much! I wish I could repay your generous help, but until you're better paid......Thank You!
rustyr

 

[pnwboat]

Re: No answers on my Force problem.

Glad to have been of some help. No payment necessary. I too have received numerous answers to problems that have stumped me on this forum. Just doing my part to help out a fellow boater in keeping with the spirit of the forum. I think this forum is unique in that respect. Very friendly and helpful individuals that really have a positive attitude.