Nissan 9.9 four-stroke; starter won't turn the engine over...help please?

[onepyramid]

2006 Nissan 9.9 four-stroke engine; short shaft with electric start.

Starter now fails to turn the engine over. Took the starter to an automotive starter rebuild company...they said nothing wrong with it. Bought a new starter...same situation...it triggers, but is not strong enough to turn the motor over.

Is there some sort of capacitive discharge unit that may have failed?

Other ideas?

Thanks, in advance, for your help.

Mark

 

[onepyramid]

If this helps, I took the solenoid out of the loop by connecting the two heavy wires directly together, but with the positive wire off the battery. When I touch the positive wire to the battery, the starter tries to engage, but is still not strong enough to do even the slightest movement of the flywheel.

This motor moves freely and starts with the pull cord, easily.

 

[GA_Boater]

Start by cleaning all connections from the battery to the starter, including grounds. What is the battery voltage?

 

[onepyramid]

All connections are bright and shiny. Battery is freshly charged 12 marine starting battery. Meter reads 12.54 V at the battery terminals.

Motor is out of the boat and on a stand, so I have easy access.

 

[onepyramid]

With meter on battery side of solenoid and to ground....I get the same 12.54V. With meter to starter side of solenoid and to ground, I get 0.00V. When I then push the starter button, I only get 0.82V on the starter side of the solenoid.

To me, that would indicate the solenoid is bad, but why did the starter not activate normally when I connected the battery and starter cables away from the solenoid?

 

[km1125]

To me, that would indicate the solenoid is bad, but why did the starter not activate normally when I connected the battery and starter cables away from the solenoid?

How confident are you that you had really, really good connections when you were connecting directly to the starter? With good connections, that should have worked..

Were you still relying on the same ground (or negative) cable and connections? If so, perhaps they need to be looked at. You're getting a high resistance connection somewhere.

 

[GA_Boater]

Is the solenoid clicking? A healthy click.

 

[onepyramid]

The solenoid is clicking....loud enough that I can hear it well. This only after the first attempt, as the starter motor moving up to engage masks the initial click.

The starter moves us to engage, but just sticks there....not having enough guts to turn the motor.

I tried it again...bypassing the solenoid, with all good tight connections. Starter does the exact same thing...moves up and engages, but will not turn the flywheel.

It bugs me that the solenoid, when in the loop, only shows less than 1.0V when activated. But it is weirder, yet, that when bypassed, the starter will still not turn anything.

 

[GA_Boater]

What is the voltage on the solenoid start connection when trying to start?

 

[km1125]

I tried it again...bypassing the solenoid, with all good tight connections. Starter does the exact same thing...moves up and engages, but will not turn the flywheel.

Exactly how are you doing this...are you using a set of jumper cables and bypassing everything else, or leaving some of the existing components "in the loop" when you are testing?

It bugs me that the solenoid, when in the loop, only shows less than 1.0V when activated. But it is weirder, yet, that when bypassed, the starter will still not turn anything.

How exactly are you measuring this voltage... where is the negative lead of the meter? If you put the negative meter lead on the input of the solenoid and the positive lead on the output of the solenoid, then you would probably measure 1v (or -1v).

The meter can tell you EXACTLY where you are losing voltage (or current) but it depends on where you put BOTH leads on what you are actually measuring. If you put the negative lead on the engine casing and the positive lead on the starter input then you're measuring all the voltage drop in the system from battery to motor. Move one or the other lead, and you're measuring something less... which can be helpful in troubleshooting.

If you were only getting 1v at the starter (or output of the solenoid), the starter wouldn't even be turning at all.

 

[km1125]

yet, that when bypassed, the starter will still not turn anything.

That suggests the problem is not with the solenoid.

 

[onepyramid]

When checking with the solenoid in the loop, the negative lead is on ground; positive is on the starter side of the solenoid and it reads about 0.85V when the start button is pushed.

When bypassing the solenoid, I am removing the two large wires from the solenoid and clamping them together with vise grips. I am leaving the green and black wires from the solenoid hooked up....since this would run the starter continuously, I am unhooking the positive lead from the battery and using it as my start button, if you will.

 

[km1125]

Do the following tests. These test for voltage drop and should isolate where you are losing voltage.

Put the solenoid back in the loop (normal configuration).

Put the positive meter lead on the positive battery post;

Then put the negative meter lead on the solenoid "input" lead (the one from the battery). Check voltage when cranking. Should be <1v.

Then move the negative meter lead to the output of the solenoid (the one that goes to the starter). Check voltage when cranking. Should be <1v.

Then move the negative meter lead to the starter post. Check voltage when cranking. Should be <1v.

Put the negative meter lead on the negative post of the battery. Put the positive lead on the engine or starter casing. Check voltage when cranking. Should be <1v

Any section reading over 1v will be the section that you should focus on for issues. Bad cable, bad connector, bad connection, etc.

 

[pvanv]

1. You must specify model/serial when describing a Tohatsu/Nissan motor for servicing. Year is irrelevant.
2. 12.5v on a flooded 12v battery is half dead. It should be about 13v when charged; 12v is pretty much dead..
3. If the shop told you the starter motor was good, it is idiotic to buy another new one.
4. If you understand what you are measuring with your meter, you will understand why you are getting say 1v solenoid to ground when attempting to crank: a bad connection from that point forward to ground. Very likely a poor/corroded crimp.
5. If you use an analog ohm meter, you may get lucky and find the poor connection directly; otherwise, you need to jump over each cable and connection individually until you locate the problem. These motors draw maybe 20 amps, so the poor connection is pretty bad, and should be easy to find, because it will get warm. Odds are it's either a bad ground or the lead from the solenoid to the starter.

If this seems above your skill level, get some help from someone who understands how these systems work... and understands what/how a voltmeter measures.

 

[onepyramid]

My results, in red, below:

Do the following tests. These test for voltage drop and should isolate where you are losing voltage.

Put the solenoid back in the loop (normal configuration).

Put the positive meter lead on the positive battery post;

Then put the negative meter lead on the solenoid "input" lead (the one from the battery). Check voltage when cranking. Should be <1v. Meter reads 0.00 before pushing starter button, while pushing starter button meter is 10.53.

Then move the negative meter lead to the output of the solenoid (the one that goes to the starter). Check voltage when cranking. Should be <1v. While pushing starter button meter reads 10.55 (but without pushing starter button - with pos on +battery post and neg on output of solenoid, the meter shows full battery voltage, then drops to 10.55 when starter button is pushed).

Then move the negative meter lead to the starter post. Check voltage when cranking. Should be <1.0 Meter reads 10.54 while pushing starter button (Again, with pos on +battery post and neg on starter post, meter shows full battery voltage - drops to 10.54 when the starter button is pushed).

Put the negative meter lead on the negative post of the battery. Put the positive lead on the engine or starter casing. Check voltage when cranking. Should be <1v Voltage is 0.14.

Any section reading over 1v will be the section that you should focus on for issues. Bad cable, bad connector, bad connection, etc.

I am sorry to be such a pain on this...I am just about ready to put it back in the boat and use the pull start....but my 84 year-old father uses this boat more than I and I would like for him to not have to do that....

Mark

 

[onepyramid]

And this battery is strong enough to crank my other 9.9 motor for long periods of time....so I don't think its the battery.

 

[onepyramid]

The motor is a Nissan NSF9.8A2

 

[km1125]

Don't be disheartened. Those were good tests. I forgot to mention/realize that the starter would be completing the circuit on some of those tests so you were reading battery voltage when you were not trying to start.

Sure looks like you have a problem either on the positive post of the battery, the cable from the positive battery post to the solenoid, or the connector on one end or the other end of that cable. Take a good jumper cable and connect from the battery positive to the input of the solenoid and try to start.

The 'negative test' worked great and showed 0.14 volts dropped... perfectly acceptable, but the positive side showed you were losing 10+ volts on all tests.

 

[pvanv]

You just found the problem.

 

[pvanv]

Then put the negative meter lead on the solenoid "input" lead (the one from the battery). Check voltage when cranking. Should be <1v. Meter reads 0.00 before pushing starter button, while pushing starter button meter is 10.53.

You just found the problem.

The voltage drop from the battery to the solenoid should be nearly zero, because the wire cable should be a nearly perfect conductor. What does it tell you if you load the system (by triggering the starter), and the drop on that wire (which again should be zero) goes to 11 volts? Perhaps a lousy corroded crimp?