Newbie w/ Boat Fever - Looking into Cuddy Cabin's

[The-MX5-Miata]

Hello All, My name is Jack and I am a total newbie at boating. Never owned one, just been on a few and have fallen in love. When I first decided I wanted a boat, I was going in the direction of a sporty Jet boat (ex. Yamaha, Sea-doo) because I'm younger (20) and these have the nice look and are supposedly quick but you must have lots of power. (because of inefficiency) Then lots of people and research sort of drug me away from the idea because of them being "money pits" like any boat might be. Also wasn't too fond of the inefficiency or the obnoxiously loud motors. Also, didn't like the dual motor set-up because to me that looks like more moving parts, which in turn, means more stuff to go wrong. So after hours of craigslist surfing and forum hopping, I think I am wanting a Cuddy Cabin boat for a few reasons: Lots of power, although small, I enjoy the little place to nap if you want, seating for generally more than 4, and they seem a little bit better kept up than a typical Jet boat or smaller boat a young punk like me may own. :facepalm: So, here I am, 20 year old kid in South Dakota looking into boats. Here is my criteria:
$5000 or less
Enough power to pull multiple skiers or tubes
Preferably one with lots of rebuilt/new parts, Engines, Out-drives, Interior-carpet, seats, floor, stereo, repainted or new decals, any of the stuff that makes it looks pretty for the age. (older boats because of price range)
Size isn't a huge deal, but maybe a little bit longer 22-24 might be better because if I do nap in this little cabin, I want just a bit of room?
Hold 5 or 6 passengers and still cruise, tow, ski, with ease
Most cuddy cabins I have looked at can fit this criteria I have set up pretty well. Here is where I need some help being a total Narn at boating, motors, anything.
What do I need to look for when looking at a boat or driving one?
Any specific motors to stay away from>? I've read that some of Volvo's stuff is quite the handful and a few of the smaller Mercruiser models that were discontinued. Now obviously everyone has different views and experiences with different motors but I know that some are definitely generally a red flag.
What do I look for in steering? Tightness?
What do I feel for or look for in the condition of the hull?
Hard starting normal because haven't been started for a while or should they just fire right up?
Anything to help me in my boating search would be great and I have always just loved reading your site in the shadows and now I am coming forward to get some real help from you pros out here. Thanks for your support.

 

[Mikeyboy]

Re: Newbie w/ Boat Fever - Looking into Cuddy Cabin's

First of all welcome aboard. Second I know how strong boating fever can be but make sure to really check any boat out well before buying. You also want to insist on a water test as many motors sound great in the driveway but don't work well under load in the water (trust me). As far as hard starting if the boat has been stored all winter it may be a bit hard to start the first time but after the first start it should start right back up again. You also want to make sure the motor gets fully warmed up on the test as motor problems only happen once it's warmed up. If its within your budget you may want to find a local boat mechanic that you can throw a few bucks to go with you to look at a boat you are really serious about buying. Good luck on your search.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Newbie w/ Boat Fever - Looking into Cuddy Cabin's

Welcome to iBoats, as well

Based on your budget of $5k you will be looking at older boats, some may not be in very good condition. The variables will be age, size, brand, and finally condition.

So, as you improve one thing, you will have to give way on another. . . Newer boat, will have to be smaller, etc in order to stay in budget.

Cuddies are good, and are safer in rougher conditions. My advice is too look at lots of boats before you buy. Once you find something worth your time have the seller take you out for a test ride, etc.

Most all boats of the era you will be looking at have wood in the hull and deck. The wood tends to rot after 10, 15, 20 years, so that is what you have to check for.

OMC engines are a show stopper, Mercruiser or Volvo are safe bets for I/O engines

 

[scoutabout]

Re: Newbie w/ Boat Fever - Looking into Cuddy Cabin's

Welcome aboard.

Sounds like you've done some thinking and are asking some of the right questions, but there are many, many more. Do yourself a favour and either get a friend who has lots of boat-buying experience to go with you, or better still, hire a mechanic or marine surveyor (sometimes you need both) to thoroughly check out your short list or favourite rig. This can cost you a few bucks but you can also avoid getting taken real bad on an older boat. Most boats don't get better with age, and an abused or neglected one can cost you as much again as you spent to buy it real quick.

Also, if you have some diy skills it can help you decide what you can live with in terms of imperfections that can be fixed as you go. Just make sure the basics are there if you don't want to spend more time in the driveway than the water the first year. Solid floors, stringers, and transom, good outdrive, solid motor with good compression that has been winterized properly (no cracked block, etc.). Those are some of the basics. Ratty upholstry, worn carpet, peeling decals, and oxidized gelcoat are less major - but you do want to be on high alert with boats like this because they may indicate neglect of the more important stuff.

Good luck, post links to your possibles, for us grumpy farts to shoot holes in, and let us know how you progress.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Newbie w/ Boat Fever - Looking into Cuddy Cabin's

$5000 and a 22-24' cuddy in decent condition isn't going to happen, much less one in good shape and with the toys you want. And a newbie should not start with a project boat. And if $5000 is the whole budget, no way; you always add $1000 to a boat that size just to get it on the water. To restore a project boat that size, add another 5000. Then next year, repairs.

You're in South Dakota, so from what I've learned you will be on lakes in the summer, shut down in the winter. Have you priced storage?

First, I'd rethink the cuddy. Most people who have them find them over-rated and seldom used as a cabin. You are adding weight (and therefore a bigger engine, more fuel) and losing space (so you need a bigger hull for all yo peeps.) They aren't the best for watersports.

22-24' is a big boat for a learner. You will also need a big tow vehicle (unless you slip it) and a dual axle trailer with brakes. $$$.

you say "Hold 5 or 6 passengers and still cruise, tow, ski, with ease" and pull multiple tubes/ski's. You need a big engine. Got lots of gas money laying around? Will your 20 year old friends pay for gas? You know the girls won't.

Start with a 19' open hull design with a good solid running outboard. Forget the extras like stereo's--"it's not the whistle that pulls the train." Get someone to help you be sure the hull is solid and motor sound (out there you have freeze and rot problems,I hear constantly).

 

[The-MX5-Miata]

Re: Newbie w/ Boat Fever - Looking into Cuddy Cabin's

OMC engines are a show stopper, Mercruiser or Volvo are safe bets for I/O engines

As far as any specific models...? Any preferences? Any cuddy cabin owners that stand by their boat and swear up and down its the best? When you say OMC Engines are show stoppers.... I don't want to interpret this the wrong way so please go on...

Also, I've seen lots of GM motors and even a few Ford motors in these boats, recommend them at all for cheaper parts?

And to those of you who say this seems a little far fetched, I will post a few links to what I have seen and think are decent boats for the money. Please criticize them up and down. Tell me what is wrong, what not to buy, etc. and I'm the kinda guy that will stay overnight on the lake with a girl or a friend just cus I can. I don't have lots of gas money laying around either, but I've heard its the worst when your boat is so under powered just making you want to upgrade anyway. I have a nice half-ton truck with 7500lbs towing limit. Or thats what is recommended anyway. Its a 6 spd manual Nissan Frontier. I have towed upwards of 7000lbs and she does it just fine, just have to be careful with all that weight. Again, I'm not pro on any of this, just trying to gain knowledge and get beat up by you guys mentally.

http://siouxcity.craigslist.org/boa/2935311346.html - I really like this one - Rebuilt motor/redone interior blah blah
http://stcloud.craigslist.org/boa/2960096052.html - I love the looks of this one and everything seems ok?
http://desmoines.craigslist.org/boa/2922370480.html - A little small and to me seems under-powered compared to everything else I have seen but for the price it also seems a little hard to beat?

I'll let you guys shoot holes in these as well.

P.S. I'm not worried about a stereo as I'm good at wiring and have lots of friends who have spare speakers, amps, cd players, blah blah. That isn't a big deal. Just want a cleaner interior with working gauges. And as far as little things go, like seats or carpet, not a big deal but would prefer to get one with that stuff already done because its not that I couldn't do it, as a few of you have already said, I wanna spend more time on the water than in the driveway fixing silly things.

Also random question for boats like this and little cuddy cabins. How do you get little things powered up overnight in a boat like this if you are camping out in the cabin? Just the use of an extra battery and dc/ac converters? or are their little generators that I'm missing or? Little things like cell phone chargers, a small fan, a small t.v. - maybe a laptop charger? Just smaller things.

And thanks guys for all the responses, this is great. Beat me up as for I'm just a kid who wants the world. Don't you dare try to talk me out of a boat though.

 

[Mikeyboy]

Re: Newbie w/ Boat Fever - Looking into Cuddy Cabin's

Those look like nice well cared for boats but keep in mind that no matter how nice the boat is you will wind up sinking some money into it after you buy it so if you spend everything you have buying it you may wind up stuck waiting to have more money to get things done.

 

[The-MX5-Miata]

Re: Newbie w/ Boat Fever - Looking into Cuddy Cabin's

Those look like nice well cared for boats but keep in mind that no matter how nice the boat is you will wind up sinking some money into it after you buy it so if you spend everything you have buying it you may wind up stuck waiting to have more money to get things done.

So everyone is basically saying that if I end up getting a loan for 5000 I should truly only spend $4000 to leave a 1000 for silly things? That is smart and what I was thinking about doing anyway but is $1000 the lucky number or should I have more or less?

 

[Mischief Managed]

Re: Newbie w/ Boat Fever - Looking into Cuddy Cabin's

That Cobalt would be a good choice if it does not have an OMC drive and the stringers, transom and deck are solid. You will get about 3 MPG at best-economy-cruising-speed with it though. The others will get closer to 5 or 6 MPG.

I love my cuddy cabin boat and use the cabin all the time. I can imagine the fun I would have had in it at 20...

For power, use 12 volt devices and add lighter plugs if you have to. I have 3 lighter plugs in my boat.

Do you have a tow vehicle? That is really important. That Cobalt is going to 6000 lbs or more on the trailer. That's V8 pickup truck/van or full size SUV territory.

Edit: Disregard my stuff about the tow vehicle, I re-read your post above...

 

[tomdinwv]

Re: Newbie w/ Boat Fever - Looking into Cuddy Cabin's

OMC has been out of business for 10 years or more and parts are getting harder to find. If you are looking for a boat with a generator, prepare to brake out some money. They are not cheap. An inverter can handle a small load but you are not going to power very much stuff with one. As far as napping/camping in a cuddy, it gets hot in there quick on a warm sunny day.

I'm on my second cuddy cabin boat. The first one I got due to dumb luck and the second (current) one I got dirt cheap. Both are 19' and big enough to suit my needs but I don't haul around alot of people. If you plan on hauling several people most of the time, a cuddy gets cramped quick. Just my .02. Good luck.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Newbie w/ Boat Fever - Looking into Cuddy Cabin's

Out of those three, that 91 bayliner looks nice and is probably in the best condition...

But keep in mind, a cuddy is a compromise. You are trying to get a do-all boat, but its going to be mediocre at everything. Watersports will be a pain without access to the bow. Cuddies will also take more gas than an equivalent bowrider, extra weight = extra fuel. You don't get much seating room, and nobody is going to ride in the cuddy when underway. It isn't a camper/motorhome, you have no facilities and very little in the way of creature comforts.

In MOST cases, first time cuddy/pocket cruiser owners completely overestimate how much time they will actually spend in the enclosed areas.

The only reason for a 20 year old to get a cuddy... umm, nevermind, GO FOR THE CUDDY!

 

[The-MX5-Miata]

Re: Newbie w/ Boat Fever - Looking into Cuddy Cabin's

So lots of you are saying that although people think they will use the cuddy more, in the end they don't? That sounds about right and I have heard they get hot during the day which is why I'm really only interested in being in there at night if I even go in there. Also why I was curious about the fans cus i get hot. And I will RARELY if ever use it to just hang out in during the day obviously because of everything I have heard, hot, cramped, HOT. head room etc.

And as far as generators go, I'm not to worried about that aside from where I would install one because there are auctions ALL the time around here and I have seen 10+ small generators multipurpose go for $50 bucks or less so thats not a problem. Just wanted something a little more professional looking or using batteries or... something quieter? Just enough to power a fan, t.v., laptop, and cell phone chargers.

Ok so OMC and ford motors I should shy away from? Thats good info, I didn't know that.

Also, what are stringers? Remember, I'm new, I don't know a thing about these.

And i'm in Sioux Falls, SD. 2 Miles southeast of town - I'm looking at boats anywhere from Des Moines, Twn Cities, Omaha, Sioux City, Okaboji, and a few smaller towns around me here and there.

 

[The-MX5-Miata]

Re: Newbie w/ Boat Fever - Looking into Cuddy Cabin's

Also, why would watersports be a pain without access to the bow?

Any preference to Outboard motors solely or stick with I/O gm motors with Alpha Out-Drives? (Have heard decent things about them)

So other than OMC or FixOrRepairDelay expensive and rare parts, anything else to stay away from?

Any correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think my 2005 Nissan Frontier 6spd should have a problem towing anything under 7k lbs.... I may be wrong?

 

[Mikeyboy]

Re: Newbie w/ Boat Fever - Looking into Cuddy Cabin's

If its withing your tow capacity and in good working order it should be ok, might not be the fastest but if you don't need to race while towing (and you shouldn't) your probably fine. I would probably install an aftermarket trans cooler to be on the safe side and make sure the trailer brakes are in good working order.

 

[scoutabout]

Re: Newbie w/ Boat Fever - Looking into Cuddy Cabin's

Also, what are stringers? ....

LOL - sorry - sometimes we get ahead of ourselves. Stringers make up the network of supports under the floor of the boat (sole of the cockpit for marine terminology sticklers...). Think floor joists in a house. They also give strength to the bottom of the boat's hull. In boats of the age you are looking at they are generally made out of wood and encased in fiberglass. The problem is that if they aren't manufactured with care (and many aren't), the water that inevitably gets into the bilge (very bottom of the boat, under the floor) sloshes around and gets them wet. Then they rot. Then they don't hold up the floor so good anymore...

You should take a stroll through the Restoration part of this forum to see some pics of what a boat's guts look like, and the kind of work that goes into fixing them. This kind of damage isn't necessarily fatal, just very very time-consuming to repair.

As for the boats you posted - I'd take a closer look at the 91 Bayliner as well as it looks the cleanest and is probably a size you can handle for your first boat, given some care. It's probably also halfway decent on gas. Personally I'm not a fan of Bliner styling of that era, but - hey - it ain't my boat!

Good luck - keep asking questions - and keep learning. Seriously consider taking a boating safety course too. That kind of knowledge saves lives.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Newbie w/ Boat Fever - Looking into Cuddy Cabin's

Also, why would watersports be a pain without access to the bow?

You pull up to the guy after a skiing run. He hands his ski to the spotter who is now in the bow, and you pick him up from the back. Now imagine if you have 5 other people on the boat, and you are trying to coordinate getting the ski/wakeboard in the boat, as well as the guy. Or lets say you are out tubing. Its fairly easy to stash a tube in the bow, either wedge it between the cushions, or a couple ropes across it to the rails. Not going to happen with a cuddy. The tube will be too big to fit it in the cuddy, and it won't be easy to secure on top.

It all comes down to room to move around. If you are skiing/tubing/wakeboarding, you and the passengers want enough room to move around without being cramped or being in the way constantly. I've done plenty of watersports with a cuddy, as well as an open bow, and the open bow of equal length will ALWAYS be easier.

 

[belleview3]

Re: Newbie w/ Boat Fever - Looking into Cuddy Cabin's

Jack, it's obvious you have put a lot of energy into this. Congrats on joining iboats, smart move. Ask yourself the question - Will I need or use the boat to sleep or stay overnight? If not, then a cuddy is just a big hole to throw crap into. I like most others here have been boating for decades. Decide how you want to use the boat then get the right type of boat. I owned open bows for decades because I used it for watersports and hauling family / friends to the fun spots on the water. Open bows were a great application with plenty of power and space utilization. Cuddies are great looking, but most of my friends would agree that they don't use their space (except for a little privacy on occasion).
My $.02, the Cobalt is a heavier and better boat. In my region, B-liners in that size and age are a problem waiting to happen.
Good luck.

Agh, I need a spell checker.

 

[The-MX5-Miata]

Re: Newbie w/ Boat Fever - Looking into Cuddy Cabin's

Well to answer the question of if I think I will use it enough, Yes, I think I will. and I have a few clever ideas of ways to get a tube tied onto the top of the front of the enclosed bow (at least until we start tubing) and I am not to worried about room for watersports if it means I can happily camp out in the middle of the lake w/ a small t.v. and have not a care in the world And I just say 5 or so passengers because I want to have the power to move them and enough room if I ever get that many friends/open family with open schedules. Honestly I'm predicting more like 2 or 3 Including me Everytime we go out. but Just in case I get more people then I predict I wanna have some room and such. and during the day, using the cuddy as storage doesn't bother me as long as I can plop down and take a relaxing nap after its cleaned out. (skis, wakeboards, kneeboards)

and Why exactly are B-liners in that size and age a problem waiting to happen? Bad motor? Steering? Hull design? What makes them junksville?

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Newbie w/ Boat Fever - Looking into Cuddy Cabin's

Nobody has addressed it yet, but... That boat is WAY too small to safely have a generator on board. You will kill yourself if you try, and I'm not being dramatic. CO2 is deadly. An inverter can be used, but if you don't like blowing yourself up occasionally, it needs to be marine rated. Non marine rated gear can have parts that could have a spark, and combined with a carbed engine sealed in a compartment, sparks are bad news.

Personally, I'd still have an inverter if I used it for camping, but I'd probably have the inverter somewhere away from the engine compartment. Find a compartment further forward, maybe tucked up under the dash.

Don't think of a cuddy as a motorhome. Its a tent.

 

[The-MX5-Miata]

Re: Newbie w/ Boat Fever - Looking into Cuddy Cabin's

Nobody has addressed it yet, but... That boat is WAY too small to safely have a generator on board. You will kill yourself if you try, and I'm not being dramatic. CO2 is deadly. An inverter can be used, but if you don't like blowing yourself up occasionally, it needs to be marine rated. Non marine rated gear can have parts that could have a spark, and combined with a carbed engine sealed in a compartment, sparks are bad news.

Ok, what do I hook an inverter up to? A spare battery and start the motor every once and a while to recharge the battery or?