Newbie question??

[Penningtonsm]

Hey guys I am a newbi to the boating scene. I have
fallen in love with boating while on all my buddies boats. (they always tell me the best boat is your buddies boat) I have since decided that i want my own boat. I tend to cater to the bowrider/runabout/wakesetter/ski boat. They all pretty much look the same to me.

My question is, how do you guys go about finding out which boats are well put together and which ones are not. I'm not talking about the engine and things lime that, but mainly about the hull design. How do you know which manufacturer puts together a quality boat short of ripping the hull apart to investigate. Are there websites for this? I constantly here that bayliner is a crappy boat but no one can tell me why? A little help here please. I want
to make sure I get the best boat for my budget ($25000) that I can without the regrets that some have had. Thanks in advance.


Steve

 

[spikeitaudi]

Re: Newbie question??

Hey guys I am a newbi to the boating scene. I have
fallen in love with boating while on all my buddies boats. (they always tell me the best boat is your buddies boat) I have since decided that i want my own boat. I tend to cater to the bowrider/runabout/wakesetter/ski boat. They all pretty much look the same to me.

My question is, how do you guys go about finding out which boats are well put together and which ones are not. I'm not talking about the engine and things lime that, but mainly about the hull design. How do you know which manufacturer puts together a quality boat short of ripping the hull apart to investigate. Are there websites for this? I constantly here that bayliner is a crappy boat but no one can tell me why? A little help here please. I want
to make sure I get the best boat for my budget ($25000) that I can without the regrets that some have had. Thanks in advance.


Steve

Steve,

Just look on here and keep reading. The more you read the more you will understand things. That is what I did. If you don't understand ask questions. That is the only way you will learn.

Bayliners had a bad reputation for whatever the reason my be. But they are starting to turn it around from what I have read. I do have a bayliner myself and love it. Bayliners are also the no frills brand of boats (cheaper) but then again how much luxuary do you need on a boat on the water. There are nicer more luxuary brands, for example:

Cobaly
Four Winns
Crownline
AZURE
Sea Ray
Larson
Donzi
Formula

Etc... the list can go on. In the bowrider segment from 18-22 feet you aren't going to see that much difference in size. Those upper echelon manufactures do put in luxuary items that jack up the cost, but the items are real nice. To me the engine is the most import thing and on an I/O it seems you can't really go wrong with a Merc or Volvo engine. The rest is just how much luxuary you want. I would take a Cobalt or Fourwinn bowrider anyday over my bayliner but I won't want to spend 1/2 as much for it either.

I like my little Bayliner it suites mine and my family needs just great. Could I have bought a better boat. Absolutely, but I have more $$$ in my pocket now then if I would of bought a Cobolt ( I do love those boats thou)

Hope this helps. If not ask away.

 

[likalar]

Re: Newbie question??

Steve, good question to ask. You'll get lots of helpful answers here. My 2 cents: Stick with the well known companies that have a proven track record. Visit the boat shows, marinas, dealerships, and ask a zillion questions. Search the web for reviews and satisfaction surveys.


http://powerboat.about.com/od/buyingaboat/tp/2009-J-D--Powers-Boat-Rankings.htm

The iboat site has owners groups by manufacturer that can be real helpful too.

I've had experience with some good, well known builders (Sea Ray, Mastercraft, Boston Whaler, Zodiac). They have great selections, trained service personel, and good resale value. I've also had some experience with lesser known boats too. IMO, stay with the brand name boats that have a proven track record, value the customer, and will likely be around long term. These companies succeed because of repeat buisness. You'll pay more initially for a better boat, but quality matters in a boat.

You mentioned Bayliner. It's a large well known mass production builder that makes great efforts to build affordable boats at a price point that usually beats the competition, price-wise. Maybe not for everyone, but some great times are had on Bayliners. The fun is in the looking, too, so enjoy your search.

Larry

 

[spikeitaudi]

Re: Newbie question??

Steve, good question to ask. You'll get lots of helpful answers here. My 2 cents: Stick with the well known companies that have a proven track record. Visit the boat shows, marinas, dealerships, and ask a zillion questions. Search the web for reviews and satisfaction surveys.


http://powerboat.about.com/od/buyingaboat/tp/2009-J-D--Powers-Boat-Rankings.htm

The iboat site has owners groups by manufacturer that can be real helpful too.

I've had experience with some good, well known builders (Sea Ray, Mastercraft, Boston Whaler, Zodiac). They have great selections, trained service personel, and good resale value. I've also had some experience with lesser known boats too. IMO, stay with the brand name boats that have a proven track record, value the customer, and will likely be around long term. These companies succeed because of repeat buisness. You'll pay more initially for a better boat, but quality matters in a boat.

You mentioned Bayliner. It's a large well known mass production builder that makes great efforts to build affordable boats at a price point that usually beats the competition, price-wise. Maybe not for everyone, but some great times are had on Bayliners. The fun is in the looking, too, so enjoy your search.

Larry

Agreed, look around and enjoy the process of looking. One other think I forgot to mention is whatever boat you get make sure the Marina that you get it at is competent and willing to go out of their way to help you. Buying a boat at a Marina just doens't stop when you buy it. The customer service is key. Good luck.

 

[scoutabout]

Re: Newbie question??

Welcome to iboats and happy shopping. One thing to keep in mind is that often, a boat brand name is just a label and that many brands may be owned and manufactured by one company. Genmar is an example of this. Google them and see just how many well known brands they own (or owned - I think they filed for Chapter 11 earlier this year).

Anyway, my point is most boats are built more or less the same way and marine hardware is virtually identical across many brands (steering systems, windshields, electrical gear, upholstry, cleats, etc., etc.).

One of the evolutions that has taken place over the years is that a fair number of manufacturers are doing away with wood in their structures and moving to other composite materials (some of which still contain some wood). The advantage to getting rid of wood is that you greatly reduce the tendancy for water penetration to start the rot process.

That's a fairly healthy budget it seems to me unless you are going for a dedicated inboard ski boat that's new. Those don't tend to make the best all around boats anyway.

As others have said, research, ask questions, surf, go to boat shows, etc. If you are going new, it's doubtful you will have too many problems. Used is another question altogether and the issue of how well a boat has been maintained often will trump the initial build quality. There's folks out there that can manage to reduce a top notch boat to junk in a matter of years, and there's others who can make a budget craft last decades while looking great.

 

[The Famous Grouse]

Re: Newbie question??

In addition to the excellent advice above, there are practical limitations to which boats are available when you actually want to purchase. This is especially true when you're buying used.

It's all well and good to have ideas about which boat brand and model you'd buy if if suddenly appeared in the want ads, but what do you do if that boat isn't for sale?

A lot of times, it comes down to knowing how you intend to use the boat and what the must-haves are as far as design and features. From there, even though the theoretical list of manufacturers is very long, you'll generally end up with a short list of options based on what's actually feasible to buy in your area.

For example, I knew I wanted to upgrade my fish-and-ski boat earlier this year. I was tired of the gas guzzling 2 stroke outboard and I have other fishing boats, so I really wanted a super comfortable family cruiser, 5.7 L with EFI for reliability and economy with lots of features including a well appointed cuddy. In addition, I wanted a boat that had a reputation for ride quality in rough water. Budget dictated that I'd be looking for a used boat to get all these features at a price I could afford.

Well that little list narrowed down my options to about 5 boats that were available locally. So even if I'd thought there was a better boat in theory, it only came down to what was actually available.

Welcome and good luck.

Grouse


So

 

[scoutabout]

Re: Newbie question??

Grouse has hit it on the head and makes an important point worth repeating. While boats are more or less built the same, hull shape is another kettle of fish altogether. Some boats just aren't designed for a comfortable ride in a heavy chop. So where, how, and when you boat is really important to take into consideration.

Whatever you decide upon, I'd say do whatever you can to arrange a sea trial. You'll learn fairly quickly if you like the way a particular boat design rides and handles the water. If buying used, beware the seller with an endless list of excuses why you can't have a sea trial. And no - firing it up in the driveway with the muffs on doesn't count.

 

[Penningtonsm]

Re: Newbie question??

Wow! It appears I have stumbled upon the right forum. Thanks alot guys for all your in depth responses. I live in NoCal and the last boat show just happens to be the weekend of the 18th and 19th. I will definitly be attending that. I am getting excited about just LOOKING at boats. I can't imagine the excitement once I actually purchase one. Thanks again.

 

[Penningtonsm]

Re: Newbie question??

In addition to the excellent advice above, there are practical limitations to which boats are available when you actually want to purchase. This is especially true when you're buying used.

It's all well and good to have ideas about which boat brand and model you'd buy if if suddenly appeared in the want ads, but what do you do if that boat isn't for sale?






So

I find this to be the case for me out here in norhern Cali. I'll go on A website like boats.com or boattrader.com just to see what's in my area within 100 miles and I'll get like five boats. But if I expand it out to 500 miles I get a plethera of choices. Am I going to have to travel that far to get a boat? Certainly hope not. I'm in California for crying out loud. There should be thousands of boats for sale.

 

[likalar]

Re: Newbie question??

I am getting excited about just LOOKING at boats. I can't imagine the excitement once I actually purchase one. Thanks again.

For some, the looking is as pleasurable as actually owning. I imagine it's still a great time to be a looker/buyer. A year ago I shopped for a very small boat with a 20 hp 4 stroke. Some great deals were being offered, even without asking. The point is, take your time, don't feel pressured, keep a notebook and camera handy while browsing, and don't exclude the help/advice of your friends you mentioned in the original post. Northern Calif has incredible boating opportunities and plenty of good water. Have fun!

Larry

 

[scon]

Re: Newbie question??

i have several friends that own bayliners ...mainly capris....but i own a invader...picked it up cheap n its worth every dime ive invested.........i dream of owning a fountain......ahhhhh...damn i want one...also and im only 8 months in the boating sceneas well(im green) but sea ray is a nice rig to in my opinion

 

[convergent]

Re: Newbie question??

I would agree with what Grouse said about being limited to what's available. That is a sizable budget you have for a first boat. You can certainly get something for a lot less than that. I started looking for a boat back about a year and a half ago and just kept watching craigslist in my area. I wanted a fish and ski type boat and I ended up getting a really nice one that had been garage kept for about 20% of your budget. It was a little bit smaller than what I wanted, but it was in incredible shape for its age. We bought it at the beginning of the summer as our first family boat (I had a boat years ago before I got married and had 4 kids), and I really wasn't sure how much we'd use it. I knew I'd use it for fishing if nothing else. Well it turned out that we have used it a lot this summer, so I continued to look for a similar style boat, but a little larger. I finally came across one this week on CL and put the wheels in motion to buy it. The larger fish and skis are less plentiful on the used market, so I'm hoping this one works out (because I already sold my boat!). The boat I bought earlier this year was great, and made by a company that went out of business about 6 or 7 years ago. So don't let that worry you. I think that the issue with Bayliners is that they have tended to be the mass market low end manufacturer, especially in years past. With a used boat though, the condition trumps just about everything else. A garage kept boat that is 15 years old could be a much better boat than a 5 year old boat that has been sitting out in the weather.

 

[MPII]

Re: Newbie question??

There's talk above about Bayliner have a bad reputation. I remember this to have started becuase Bayliner apparently does not hand lay their glass. They had "choper gun" halls that were cracking in rougher waters. I personally like Bayliners and think for the last several years they have been making a great product, even if it is made in Mexico now. Plus, you get the best bang for the buck!

Today, I believe most boats are built about the same, as said above, however, the hull design is important.

I have only owned one brand, Rinker. Not becuase its the best, I had one, it served me well for many years and a got a great deal on a newer one. Its not the "top of the line" manufacturer but they have a good value with good warranties and a solid track record.

I have friends that have owned Boats that are supposidly the best, i.e., Donzi, Cobalt, Carver, Sea Ray, Chris Craft, etc. Some have never had an issue and some have. I believe that if you take good care of the boat, motor, vnyl, trim, gel coat, and etc, any boat will give you years of good service. No different than anything else.

I would suggest also that you should get an idea what type of waters you'll be voyaging in. Rougher waters, you'll want a nice deep v. That is one thing that Rinker does have a good reputation for, great hull designs.

 

[MPII]

Re: Newbie question??

With a used boat though, the condition trumps just about everything else. A garage kept boat that is 15 years old could be a much better boat than a 5 year old boat that has been sitting out in the weather.

I want to echo this! Very important. You might have a 2 year old boat with a leaky cover where the owner doesn't care and leave plug in and the damn thing fills up with water. Decides to sell it, pulls the plug, doesn't tell you, and you're walking into all kinds of issues.

Versus

15 year old boat that has been well cared for with no problems at a cheaper price.