new surge brakes installed

[jerkoz]

what would you think a boat dealership would charge to replace the shoes on a drum surge brake trailor, new bearings and seals, and new master surge brake cylinder?

 

[alldodge]

Think of a dealer somewhere between 100 to 150 an hour. Figure 4 hours plus parts

Don't know what size trailer brakes, but replacing the entire assembly is around 200 an axle and easy to replace.

 

[Lou C]

It’s actually cheaper and much easier to replace the entire drum backing plate & they are actually pretty reasonably priced; bearings are more involved because you have to knock the old races out of the drum and install new ones & new seals. if the drums have heavy corrosion I’d just replace all with new. Prices for parts depends on if you have 10” drums or 12”. If you have a five lug hub it’s a 10” surge brake if it’s a 6 lug hub it’s a12” brake system.

 

[Alumarine]

Also, if you don't already have the Free-Backing style then if you replaced the backing plate assembly you could go with the Free-Backing type.

The Free-Backing type won't activate when backing up with a surge system.
Saves you from having to disable the system when backing up.

 

[jerkoz]

got the assemblies, new master cylinder and ready to bleed and adjust the brakes. when adjusting the drum brakes the first time, when should they start to make contact with the drums? the push rod seems to move approx. 5/8'' -3/4'' total on master cylinder. don't want them to start braking too soon. any advise would be appreciated.

 

[alldodge]

Hand adjust the shoes out until you can install the drum where it barely touches. The shoes may need to be centered a bit. Once there they will self adjust as they are used

The shock on the coupler may need to be replaced

 

[Lou C]

The way I do it is to adjust them while turning the wheels in the forward direction until you feel strong drag; then back off till there is no drag just light scraping noises. Then engage the actuator to apply the brakes (on some you can use a screwdriver to do this like on my Tie Down model 66) then recheck. I like adjusting them for no drag because the brakes run cooler and they won’t feeeze up with the shoes getting stuck to the drum in storage. Drum brakes if maintained can work well. I use galvanized brake drums and backing plates. Before putting on the drum after installing the new backing plate; I lube the sliding surfaces for the shoes and extend the adjuster all the way and lube the threads then retract it so the drum will fit over the shoes. I have a new set of Tie Down\Dexter backing plates and these came with the new style boot less aluminum wheel cylinders that are less prone to failure than the older style with the boot. These are actually made by UFP and apparently Dexter now owns Tie Down and UFP.

 

[jerkoz]

Lou C ; i will try your method, sound good. i just don't want them to come on too soon.

 

[Lou C]

Remember surge brakes are basically self regulating, its the push of the trailer against the tow hitch that applies the brakes. So them coming on too soon, is not really something that you can change, or adjust. The thing you want to make sure of is that they do not stick on. This can be tested if you have the kind of actuator that can be triggered with a screwdriver like mine. Drum brakes have very strong return springs so if they stick on, its usually a corroded/frozen wheel cylinder. Those usually need replacement every few seasons, I figured out a way to keep water out of them and mine last longer. Believe it or not I have the same actuator on my trailer since 2004, I only had to replace the emergency break away cable because it corroded.

 

[jerkoz]

ready to bleed master and new wheel cylinders. bought new wheel assemblies. was going to blow out brake lines without them connected to new wheel cylinders.. then connect the brake line from the master cylinder to the new wheel cylinders.. should i bleed the master first and then connect the line to the wheel cylinders?

 

[alldodge]

Yes master first, then wheel cylinder furthest from the master

 

[jerkoz]

bled the master cylinder and ready to bleed the wheel cylinders. noticed the master cylinder fitting was different from the one on the old master cylinder. the new fitting has 3 small holes in the end that screws into the master cylinder.. the old one had one hole. i noticed online some have different size holes. should i be worried?

 

[alldodge]

Need to see what your seeing

 

[jerkoz]

took the fitting out, re-drilled it to the same size as the old fitting. big difference in the flow.

 

[Alumarine]

Not exactly sure what you're talking about but I know on mine it uses a different size orifice on the fitting that goes into the master cylinder depending on whether you have drum or disc brakes.

 

[Lou C]

Not exactly sure what you're talking about but I know on mine it uses a different size orifice on the fitting that goes into the master cylinder depending on whether you have drum or disc brakes.

maybe post up a pic, there is a difference in the orifice size from drum brakes to disc, disc requires a larger orifice size to allow the fluid to flow back to the master to release the brakes. This is because disc brakes only have the square seal in the caliper to release the brakes while drum brakes have those strong return springs to do the same thing. So the orifice size has to be larger for disc brakes.

 

[bruceb58]

maybe post up a pic, there is a difference in the orifice size from drum brakes to disc, disc requires a larger orifice size to allow the fluid to flow back to the master to release the brakes. This is because disc brakes only have the square seal in the caliper to release the brakes while drum brakes have those strong return springs to do the same thing. So the orifice size has to be larger for disc brakes.

Drum brakes have a residual valve on the master cylinder output to keep a slight positive pressure in the lines.