New prop seals $250 "ballpark" becomes $379!

Expidia

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I dropped a 1999 25 hp 2 stroke off last week to the same Merc certified repair shop that has done other work in the past for me.

I'd like to be prepared when I talk to him tomorrow on how his ballpark quote for $250 to replace a leaking prop seal turned into a bill (8% tax included) into $379.

I don't know what was involved with the job. I originally thought the seal was somehow replaced by taking the prop off and getting to it that way. He said no, the foot has to come off and taken apart to replace the seals.

He said when the tech took it apart he had other issues that had to be addressed. He said he kept the parts to show me.

So I'm not thinking I'm being taken advantage of here . . . yet!

I'll see what he has to say. But does anyone think this is plausible that a 250 job to replace a prop seal turns into 379!

What can anyone tell me about this procedure that has done it already themselves?

I'd like to be a little more knowledgeable about what is involved for this repair, before I meet with him in the AM!

Thx
 

CharlieB

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Re: New prop seals $250 "ballpark" becomes $379!

Curious what are these 'other issues'?

Many states have laws that require shops to provide written estimates for repair, then make a small amount of leeway + or - in the final bill.

HOWEVER, those only apply if the customer has ASKED for a WRITTEN estimate.

Many shops will CALL a customer when anything out of the ordinary is found that would make a large difference in the bill.

What is considered a 'large difference'?

If the shops major work is on higher dollar machines a difference of 150 may not seem so much to them, but for the rest of us working souls, that hurts.

If these 'other issues' are reasonable, and may have saved you the time and trouble of a breakdown and more expense later, consider yourself lucky that he found it, although it would have been much better customer relations to have called you and informed you of the findings.
 

CharlieB

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Re: New prop seals $250 "ballpark" becomes $379!

Oh, and yes, it is customary to pull the gearcase and reseal the WHOLE case, and not shortcut and just do the carrier, we do not want the risk of the upper seal failing and the gearcase coming back.

I don't think you would either.
 

Expidia

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Re: New prop seals $250 "ballpark" becomes $379!

Thanks Charlie for the quick reply. The last two times I used work orders with them and of course I would have expected them to call me if the estimate is going to work out higher for one reason or another.

Like I said, this time since I was comfortable with them, his partner was moving a boat and when I drove in and he said he knows what has to be done, your parts already came in and just leave it in the corner and we will get to it ASAP, that I don't even have to go to the counter!

Well several days later I called to see the status and he said the wrong parts came in and he had to send a guy up 20 miles away to get the right ones and I don't think he came back with them on that trip.

So it seemed like a simple job to me to replace the seals, but I've never seen the inside parts of a lower unit so I don't know how involved this job can get.

But I was worried that all their running around for the proper parts to finish the job or more likely that they forgot to order the parts in the first place and then when they finally came in they were the wrong ones!

I might be being billed for their $75-90 an hour labor job which included them looking around for parts.

So how much time should this job take, if they had gotten the correct parts in the first place???

Thx
 

DonHof

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Re: New prop seals $250 "ballpark" becomes $379!

It would have been nice if they called you first and told you it was going to run more.

Don
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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Re: New prop seals $250 "ballpark" becomes $379!

If the engine is the one in your signature (2007, 40hp) and you have a leaking prop shaft seal, then you may well have other issues. Another issue is that Mercs generally have a 3 year warranty, and you may still be in the warranty period. As for ....

.... the foot has to come off and taken apart to replace the seals....

Poppy ****!!! If it's just the prop shaft seals, then pulling the prop, removing the bearing carrier and putting new seals in and putting it all back together shouldn't take more than an hour, and can be done with the box still on the engine! And at 3 years old, there won't be any corrosion/frozen parts issues. Couple of seals at $25 and some oil, maybe $10 worth... Even at $250, it's a bit steep. Can still do a pressure and vacuum test with the gearbox on the engine....

Have a listen to what he has to say about 'other issues', but remember that we are in tough economic times, he may be 'milking'.... and if he ordered the wrong parts and someone had to drive somewhere to get the right ones, that is NOT your problem....
 

Expidia

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Re: New prop seals $250 "ballpark" becomes $379!

It would have been nice if they called you first and told you it was going to run more.

Don

Agreed. The part that hurts is I paid $700 last year to them for preventive maintenance: a new OEM carb and an impeller and said to my Daughter this seal repair was her bill.

So when he called tonight I said how much did it come to and when he said $379 she was not too happy and said the same thing . . . why didn't they call us for $120 overage???

So I offered to pay the difference for her because it was my fault that I trusted them and didn't nail them down with a written estimate, before I left the shop.

I'm still curious as to how much others have paid to replace the prop seal on a small outboard?
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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Re: New prop seals $250 "ballpark" becomes $379!

.... a new OEM carb ....

I checked, for the 1999 25hp, a new carb is $317, that means they charged $383 to replace an impeller! :eek: :eek: :eek:

You're being stitched my friend....
 
Last edited:

Expidia

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Re: New prop seals $250 "ballpark" becomes $379!

If the engine is the one in your signature (2007, 40hp) and you have a leaking prop shaft seal, then you may well have other issues. Another issue is that Mercs generally have a 3 year warranty, and you may still be in the warranty period. As for ....



Poppy ****!!! If it's just the prop shaft seals, then pulling the prop, removing the bearing carrier and putting new seals in and putting it all back together shouldn't take more than an hour, and can be done with the box still on the engine! And at 3 years old, there won't be any corrosion/frozen parts issues. Couple of seals at $25 and some oil, maybe $10 worth... Even at $250, it's a bit steep. Can still do a pressure and vacuum test with the gearbox on the engine....

Have a listen to what he has to say about 'other issues', but remember that we are in tough economic times, he may be 'milking'.... and if he ordered the wrong parts and someone had to drive somewhere to get the right ones, that is NOT your problem....

Ya, no . . . it's not the 2007. It's the 99 we picked up last year. By the time I paid him labor to do a vacuum test i figured it would be better to just replace the seal. I could see oil dripping down the skeg a little and it was fresh brown gear lube that I changed at the end of the season.

When he said $250 i figured that was fair. It will be interesting to see what else he found.

Sure I have a 5 year Merc warranty on the 07 but my luck if I had a leak in the prop seal they would probably tell me it's not covered cause it's a wear item! I hate warranties but I know how much an o/b repair can cost out of warranty!
 

achris

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Re: New prop seals $250 "ballpark" becomes $379!

Ok, you need to tell us what engine it is if it's different from your signature.... (I answer dozens of questions on different engine... I can't (and don't try to) keep track of who's got what)

Ya, no . . . it's not the 2007. It's the 99 we picked up last year. By the time I paid him labor to do a vacuum test i figured it would be better to just replace the seal.

Vacuum and pressure test takes about 5 minutes to set up... walk away and work on something else and come back in 30 minutes. Read the gauge and remove the gear, another 2 minutes.

How much did he quote to do a test?

Edit: You've edited your original post to include the engine, thank you.... I can have the gearbox off that engine, stripped and resealed and back together and on the engine in well under 2 hours. Last week I rebuilt a V4 Johno box in 30 minutes! And I wasn't rushing, it's just that they don't take long...
 

Expidia

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Re: New prop seals $250 "ballpark" becomes $379!

I dropped a 1999 25 hp 2 stroke off last week to the same Merc certified repair shop that has done other work in the past for me.
Thx

My first line had the 1999 in it!

What's the exchange rate on US vs Australian dollars? Maybe that's why you seem cheaper :D :)
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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Re: New prop seals $250 "ballpark" becomes $379!

My first line had the 1999 in it!

What's the exchange rate on US vs Australian dollars? Maybe that's why you seem cheaper :D :)

$1AUD=$0.916USD. And more than 1 person has called me 'cheap'. :D:D:D

Chris......
 

saumon

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Re: New prop seals $250 "ballpark" becomes $379!

The part that hurts is I paid $700 last year to them for preventive maintenance: a new OEM carb and an impeller

And did they tell you WHY they have to order a new OEM carb? I really can't see a good reason to order a new complete carb. Preventive maintenance is usually cleaning (let's say an hour of labor) and a gasket kit (something like 15$). Overhaul is a bit pricier (maybe 30 or 40$ in parts and the same labor than for cleaning) as it also include some new parts like float and needle but unless it has been crushed by a hammer, you don't have to change the carb itself...
 

Expidia

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Re: New prop seals $250 "ballpark" becomes $379!

And did they tell you WHY they have to order a new OEM carb? I really can't see a good reason to order a new complete carb. Preventive maintenance is usually cleaning (let's say an hour of labor) and a gasket kit (something like 15$). Overhaul is a bit pricier (maybe 30 or 40$ in parts and the same labor than for cleaning) as it also include some new parts like float and needle but unless it has been crushed by a hammer, you don't have to change the carb itself...

Thx for your insight . . . it was not like that. It's not my boat it's my Daughters. So when she bought it last year I did the minor things to it like plugs, lower unit oil, gas filter etc.

But I knew it would need an impeller and it was running a little rough. What I didn't need was a call from her on some lake 2 hours away "Dad, my motor won't start". So knowing it was already a 10 year old motor and not knowing how well it was maintained I figured my choices were . . take carb off and apart and spray it out with carb cleaner. That's what my brother in law does periodically to his Yammy. But he never gets a carb kit with new gaskets. I can't work like that, so I would have had to get a carb kit and do it all myself. I ordered the kit from iboats and they sent me the wrong one.

Good thing I didn't start it myself. Because I would have had it all apart and discovered the wrong kit. And thrown a few tools around :D. I was working on the O/B on the curb in front of my house too which was annoying to have to work like that.

So when I dropped the motor off to the Merc certified mechanic I asked him since he is doing the impeller how much to put in a new carb kit too. I also wanted only an OEM kit. So he said about $50 for the kit, but it's the labor that moves the price up. They get $23 per quarter hour. It would have ran about $150. So the new carb was $370 but I'm selling the old carb on Ebay for $100. So that brings the new carb down to $270 which is $120 more than if I had him do a rebuild. Now I know I'll have no future carb issues.

He said he tries not to rebuild them due to the cost and says it's not that much more just to bolt on a new carb. So it was my idea to just put on a new carb and not worry about a carb clean and kit acting up later on.

It runs super. But last week I noticed the oil dripping off the bottom of the skeg.

Picked it up today and he did say when I left it ballpark was $250. He saved the parts and showed me in the factory manual (I need to get me one of these, not those useless Seloc manuals) on how you check each part along the way for damage. The piece on the bottom of the linkage rod was cracked. Several of the seals were cracked and some were rusty which meant not only was oil leaking out, water was getting in which could have been costly in the future. He listed out all the parts which came to $97. He showed me about 12 parts that were replaced "besides" the $24 seal kit. 2.5 hours labor which is pretty much in line with AChris's less than two hour estimate. But he did replace more parts so 2.5 was fair to me. Labor came to $235 and tax was $28 all tolled $379.

So now we have put about $1000 into this 99 2 stroke into what I call preventive maintenance. I was the one who said don't bother with the pressure test as I saw where the oil was leaking from.

She bought the whole rig for like $2400. The Monarch 14 foot aluminum was in primo condition, always garaged, accessories, A 2 year old Minn Kota bow mounted V2 Powerdrive (Like $700 new) fully carpeted, Garmin Fish finder and the trailer was in great condition too. I was amazed when I drove down to CT to pick it up for her and saw it's condition.

So all tolled we are into it for $3400 and the motor is pretty much like new. A new motor if worse came to worse would be $3500 alone (with power trim and electric start).

So we are still way ahead of the game after spending $1000 to bring this rig up to next to new condition.

I appreciate your feedback as to you looking out for me with this repair shop. But he's OK so far with me for the 4 jobs he's done on two of our outboards. I know one thing, if I took it to the dealer where I bought my boat, they would be double for whatever jobs they would do.

Check out how the rugs came out after I washed them down 2 weeks ago with some laundry detergent in a bucket and I added a scoop of Oxyclean to it. They really brightened up for 11 year old rugs:

DSC01529.jpg


DSC01530.jpg
 

j_martin

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Re: New prop seals $250 "ballpark" becomes $379!

I bought an XR4 on a boat, and the LU just didn't feel quite right. Couldn't put my finger on it, but I put it in a trusted shop about November and told Dan to put in a seal kit and check it out during the winter.

It cost me a little over $400 to bail it out in the spring. It had a bunch of damaged parts in it, mostly damaged by the previous mechanic. I trust Dan, but he took pictures before he tore it down anyway for me.

Best 4 bills I've spent. It's been flawless for 3 years so far, and the way I run it they aren't supposed to be able to stand. (Partially surfaced and fast.)
 

Expidia

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Re: New prop seals $250 "ballpark" becomes $379!

I bought an XR4 on a boat, and the LU just didn't feel quite right. Couldn't put my finger on it, but I put it in a trusted shop about November and told Dan to put in a seal kit and check it out during the winter.

It cost me a little over $400 to bail it out in the spring. It had a bunch of damaged parts in it, mostly damaged by the previous mechanic. I trust Dan, but he took pictures before he tore it down anyway for me.

Best 4 bills I've spent. It's been flawless for 3 years so far, and the way I run it they aren't supposed to be able to stand. (Partially surfaced and fast.)

Thx, I feel a little better now about what it cost me!
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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Re: New prop seals $250 "ballpark" becomes $379!

Download an OEM service manual HERE... Password for the file is <<ribforum>>.

Chris.......
 

Expidia

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Re: New prop seals $250 "ballpark" becomes $379!

Download an OEM service manual HERE... Password for the file is <<ribforum>>.

Chris.......

Hi Chris, thx. But it won't open the file extension. I downloaded it by the first choice, the 2nd choice was if it's a premium user download. That one asks for a user name above the password!

Since the first down load won't open I had no place to enter the password!
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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Re: New prop seals $250 "ballpark" becomes $379!

I just downloaded it again and it worked fine. You did save it to disc first, right? Then use a program to open an .rar file with a password. I use '7-Zip'.

Are you using IE or Firefox?

Chris..............
 
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