New Gas effects on...

ted655

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 21, 2003
Messages
252
As I was planning on buying a Tot 75 2cycle EFI, I downloaded the manual to read. They say to NOT use alcohol based gas, as it will void all warrentys. Given what congress has already mandated and what will become reality for us in the future, I assume a Tohatsu is not a good choise. Any advice? :confused: Thanks
 

JB

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Re: New Gas effects on...

Depends on what they mean by "alcohol based gas".<br /><br />Regular unleaded with up to 10% ethanol has been around and in use in most outboards for several years. I read a report today of 10% methanol in gas in LI, but I still suspect mistaken identity, that it is really ethanol. Methanol is much worse for rubber and gaskets than ethanol.<br /><br />That stuff is not, IMO, alcohol based. It is alcohol enhanced, gasoline based.<br /><br />Just about any objection Tohatsu has to ethanol enhanced fuel will affect other makes as well.<br /><br />The term may really refer to what is called E85, which is gasoline enhanced ethanol (15% gas). The gasoline is to assist starting in cold weather.<br /><br />Unless we want to convert our outboards to run on propane or kerosene we are gonna have to use the 10% ethanol fuel, which most modern outboard Owner's Manuals say is okay.<br /><br />I would not avoid a particular 2 stroke engine because of it.
 

ted655

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Oct 21, 2003
Messages
252
Re: New Gas effects on...

I reread. It warns of any ethanol, meth, aceatone or benzine (lawer speak I'm guessing). It then grudgenly allows for 10% eth & 5% meth.<br />I still worry that down the road, before the life of the motor has prorated down to replacement age, the government will increase the mix above todays limits.<br />Another curious note. They warn of main componet damage (pistons, cyl. walls, rods, etc.), not just gasket components or hoses.
 

TOHATSU GURU

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Jul 22, 2004
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6,164
Re: New Gas effects on...

Tohatsu does not offer a 75 hp or an engine with EFI. If you mean a TLDI 70 hp they operate without any kind of problem on a 10% mix...Just like everyone elses outboards.
 

ziemann

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 28, 2004
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584
Re: New Gas effects on...

LOL, dammit Elvin you beat me to it. I was going to make a smart a$$ comment about his outboard's identity...<br /><br />In most of the upper midwest and many mountain states, we have been required to use ethanol for several years. I have never heard of a Tohatsu or any other manufacturer refusing warranty work based on ethanol.... other things yes...but not just based on ethanol use alone.<br /><br />Its all we can get. For some folks, ethanol is a new concept....but for much of the country, we have been using it for a long time. <br /><br />My advice is to use that big red "SEARCH" button at the top of the page....you can find several hours worth of reading entertainment...
 

handball

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Dec 13, 2002
Messages
161
Re: New Gas effects on...

JB,<br /><br />The gas I recently filled my outboard tank with was from a brand new pump here on long island new york and it clearly stated 10% methanol on the pump.<br /><br />I am using this gas for my 5 h.p. nissan , and wonder if I should put it into one of my cars and look for another station that does not use methanol.<br /><br />Also would it help to use a few more ounces of oil in the gas in order to save the piston from damage? I am using a 50: 1 mixture now. I have read that on a new engine it should be 25:1, some mechanics advise to use more oil then the 50:1 just for safety.<br /><br />Bill
 

JB

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Re: New Gas effects on...

The predictions of mechanical damage from methanol enhanced fuel is beyond me, handball.<br /><br />I used methanol based fuels in my racing engines for years. That is, about 80-85% methanol and the rest oil, ether and nitros. I did use castor oil or synthetics rather than petro oil. Maybe that made a difference.<br /><br />The only problems I had were with rubber diaphrams, hoses and gaskets, which needed changing regularly. When I had mechanical damage it was because of too much nitro, too much spark advance or too many rpm.
 

TOHATSU GURU

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Jul 22, 2004
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Re: New Gas effects on...

Extra oil is a bad idea. There is a huge safety factor built into the 50:1 mix. And as JB indicated, there is no known problem with the methanol.
 

ted655

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 21, 2003
Messages
252
Re: New Gas effects on...

Internet OBs,Z man.... All I wanted was help, a duscussion of what MIGHT come (or not) to be. Sorry, I didn't smell the pee on the tprops. Didn;t mean to enter your territory. I'm leaving. EFI, TLDI, UYA... whatever. Point was it was the newer type 2 cycle, BUT I do stand corrected and am truly shamed. Please forgive me IF you can. Sorry Z man you didn't get the first shot. I will probably post in the future and an ignoramos like me will make more mistakes I'm sure. You'll get your chance.<br />Being from the West, I also have used methanol for years. I'm very aware mileage is poor and it eats out older rubber parts.<br />I was just wonderig about WHEN the ratio goes above 10% Sorry I strayed into the neighborhood, yelp!
 

ziemann

Chief Petty Officer
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Apr 28, 2004
Messages
584
Re: New Gas effects on...

To quote myself:<br /><br />"LOL, dammit Elvin you beat me to it. I was going to make a smart a$$ comment about his outboard's identity...In most of the upper midwest and many mountain states, we have been required to use ethanol for several years. I have never heard of a Tohatsu or any other manufacturer refusing warranty work based on ethanol.... other things yes...but not just based on ethanol use alone. Its all we can get. For some folks, ethanol is a new concept....but for much of the country, we have been using it for a long time. My advice is to use that big red "SEARCH" button at the top of the page....you can find several hours worth of reading entertainment..."<br /><br />ted655: Grow some seeds and take off the skirt. I did tease a bit on my first sentence, but outside of that, the rest of the response was serious. Neither Elvin nor JB said anything that would get your panties in a bundle. <br /><br />We don't know what OB you have. Your description was a bit cryptic you have to admit. So we guessed that you were trying to describe a direct injected Tohatsu/ Nissan 70 TLDI. At least we made the effort based upon what info we had. And I think the responses that you received were beneficial in spite of the info you provided. Here's a novel concept for you: Garbage in- Garbage out. <br /><br />Intead of re-inventing the wheel, I recommended that you actually expend the calories necessary to push the "search" button. This issue (fuel quality) is debated almost constantly, and there is plenty of info here if you make the effort. <br /><br />Now the $20,000.00 question. Are you sure you mean methanol (wood alcohol)? and not ethanol (corn alcohol) like the majority of us use?<br /><br />Perhaps after you grow thicker skin, we can have some more constructive dialogue instead of you getting offended because I poked a little fun at you.
 

ted655

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 21, 2003
Messages
252
Re: New Gas effects on...

See Z, you got your chance to validate your manhood, I said you would.<br /> What does my "seeds or apparell have to do with your rudeness?<br /> Don't drag JB into this. He was helpful AND polite.<br />But then... I'm thinking you need the guys behind you.<br /> Go back and read the original post, I'm not the one who mentioned Methanal. Actually this could have been a generic discussion about additives and percentages and future increases, but NO, you had to whip it out and pee all over everything. Fine Z you win, you pee the rurthest. What a man, what a man!<br />I have to change my skirt and go do some welding now, bye, bye big boy :D :rolleyes: :D
 

TOHATSU GURU

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Jul 22, 2004
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Re: New Gas effects on...

Ted, <br /><br />I'm not sure what I posted that you regard as being less than helpful, but I apologise for having offended you. I see a lot of people that post comments that are based on some strange conclusions. Your leading post closed with the following: <br /><br />"Given what congress has already mandated and what will become reality for us in the future, I assume a Tohatsu is not a good choise."<br /><br />Since your statement that preceeded that conclusion was incorrect I thought that that pointing out that the engine model you were referring to didn't exist was the least offensive way of telling you that you were wrong. If I was trying to make fun of you, belittle your post or humilate you I would have choosen a different response. Or more likley, I wouldn't have posted at all. I know I'm blunt at times, but, posting here is something I do to help people. It's not a paid position where I observe a customer/client wall of servility :)
 

ted655

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 21, 2003
Messages
252
Re: New Gas effects on...

Internet OB; I got that and I understood you were trying for clairity, as did JB, thanks. I should have seperated my replys, but I don't have a Big Red Button that does that and by then I was a Big Red Button. Sorry<br />Tohatsu seemed to make a point of alcohol additives, more than others. Their statement is still ambiguious. Before posting here I had used my Big Red Button and sent some emails with no replys. I wondered if "here" the issue of gopng above 10% alcohol in the future was of concern to others AND... did anyone more connected than mysrlf (a mere girly-boy), had heard plans from the manufactures? Guess my voice wasn't deep enough for some.<br />I think I'll sell out and just buy an aquarium, sit around in my panties and sip bottled fizz water. :eek:
 

ziemann

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 28, 2004
Messages
584
Re: New Gas effects on...

I stand corrected- you did not mention methanol.<br /><br />As far as the panties and fizzy water... What Happens on Iboats stays on IBoats...<br /><br />Don't ask- Don't tell :D
 
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