New boats seem cheaply made.

[hostage]

I went to a boat show this past weekend in Rochester with my fiance and we checked out a lot of newer open bows. I wanted to show her some of the newer designs and how we can easily store her items safely. She really likes how we can store things in our cuddy.

I was amazed at how many expensive boats seem to cut a lot of corners. Most of them seemed to have the same cheap glove box that was made of flimsy plastic and a very cheaply made plastic latching system. I was surprised to see the Nautiques shared the same flimsy glove box as the Larsons.

I also noticed that a lot of the boats were decked out with a lot of decals. IMHO decals might look nice on the showroom, but quickly get rubbed off, fade, scratched, or damaged from normal use. I think they end up making the boot look worse.

The boats companies I was impressed as far as quality and layout was the Regal, Chaparrals, and Montery. The cobalt's I saw seemed simple, yet rugged.

The Larson's seemed to be the cheapest of the bunch. One entry level one had very cheap plastic colored trim mounted on the sides, which seems could easily break. I didn't bother looking at Bayliner or Tahoe.

I didn't have time to really look at any of the Sea Rays. Even though we spent about 3 hours there. I got side tracked talking to a scuba shop there.

I would HIGHLY advise anyone in the market for a boat (new or used) to go to a boat show. No better place to see and compare different boats and companies side by side. You also have everything fresh in your mind, instead of driving miles and spending many days going shopping. It really gives you an idea of what is out there and it allows you a great chance to compare.

Please note I don't think I would ever buy a boat new. However in a few years, when I have kids, when these boats are a few years old and a lot cheaper; it is nice to see what boat I should purchase.

-Hostage

 

[ricohman]

Re: New boats seem cheaply made.

Cheaply made? Comparing my new Starcraft Islander 221 to my old Starcraft Capri the new boat is by far better built. I've had time on older Islanders and Chieftans and the new boat seems every bit as solid. Maybe even more so.
Latches and the like are a sore spot on boats and big money travel trailers. These are cheap parts.

 

[Philster]

Re: New boats seem cheaply made.

An entire economics class couldn't cover the reason why a certain glove box is constructed the way it is.

 

[hostage]

Re: New boats seem cheaply made.

An entire economics class couldn't cover the reason why a certain glove box is constructed the way it is.

I would expect the two Nautiques that I looked at that worth more together than my house to have a higher quality glove box than a entry level Larson. They looked identical. The Regal, Chaparral, and Montery didn't use the same cheapo glovebox.

 

[hog88]

Re: New boats seem cheaply made.

Can't speak for the other makes you mentioned but I'm extremly pleased with the quality of my Monterey. So far (less than a year old) it seams to be pretty rock solid. There is a difference between the entry level boats, Larson, Bayliner and such than your Monterys, Cobalts and Regals but on some of these you get taged an extra $10k for the name.

Do your research!

 

[Philster]

Re: New boats seem cheaply made.

I would expect the two Nautiques that I looked at that worth more together than my house to have a higher quality glove box than a entry level Larson. They looked identical. The Regal, Chaparral, and Montery didn't use the same cheapo glovebox.

People who want a Nautique aren't being stopped by the glove box. Their business model dictates that dollars be spent somewhere else on the boat, be it in actual hardware, brochures, engine controls, etc.

 

[Mischief Managed]

Re: New boats seem cheaply made.

There are basically two boat manufactures in the US and they both use "common" parts in various models in the same way a Caddilac and Chevy do.

I know Cobalt, and Regal are independent, and I'm pretty sure Chap and Monterey are as well.

 

[oops!]

Re: New boats seem cheaply made.

During the recent down turn in the economy.

The mfgrs almost went down......08's are still on the lot.....dealers were back logged to the point that many mfgrs stopped production almost entirely.
Where as they might have been tooled up for 10 boats a day, they only produced one a week !

They had to find a way to cut costs to keep afloat, and still produce
Some of the major cuts were in the actual modifications to the unit cost.
By using different materials, they could save as much as 10 dollars per unit (not boat, but part cost) as well. by slightly changing the interior, they could save huge on materials cost by re designing the patterns and the templates.
This led to the boats looking more "sparse" and cheaper.
Some of these changes allowed the mfgrs to stay in business !

Case in point here is Svfara. The line is now produced by Campion. The Svfara was templated in such a manner that profit per unit was almost nil.
Campion re designed the templates and now the unit cost shows an acceptable bottom line


Finishing items like latches and docking hardware were some of the first to get rolled back.
Manufacturers like Regal, while not using the best hard ware, did use mid-grade supplies. Because they have a different marketing approach in the cruiser to yacht class, the switch to lower cost hardware was abandoned, as now the mid grade looked like the high end hardware compared to other brands.

At this time......I just really don't see a market for a SUPER quality runabout. the cost to purchase would make it unobtainable compared to a good quality mid grade like the sea ray.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: New boats seem cheaply made.

I'm planning on going to the New England Boat show this coming weekend. I usually go to see what innovations the manufacturers are coming out with. To the OP's point about quality, sometimes I see things that raise an eye brow.

By looking at the various manufacturer's products, both new and used, I think you get a real appreciation for the boat brands and their relative quality and features.

I'm looking forward to this weekend.

 

[5150abf]

Re: New boats seem cheaply made.

Boat companies have a very limited pool of vendors to draw parts from and are normally to small to comission parts to be made so if they only have 1 or 2 vendors for a glove box they have to use one of these or commit thousands and thousands of dollars to make there own.

Cheap latches are used because of that reason, they are cheap, boats are so highly competative with pricing they have to cut corners wherever possible and again they can only use what is available from thier vendors, they could probably get high quality latches a things but then thier boat woudl be $400-$500 more and lose sales to the companiy that uses the cheaper parts.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: New boats seem cheaply made.

Oops! has it right. I worked for a Tier 1 marine supplier that had its best year in 08 followed by the worst year in 09. to keep afloat, $15 stainless latches were replaced with $3 plastic. stainless was replaced with chromed brass. closed cooling became optional to save $500 on the engine, etc. Most of the specialty boat builders in Florida went under. this trickled down to most of the Tier 1 suppliers going under, so most boat manufacturers have only one or two suppliers to obtain parts from - thats why you will find much of the same hardware across most of the brands.

 

[hostage]

Re: New boats seem cheaply made.

Very interesting points about how the economy really determines the build and finish of the boat. So if you want to buy a used boat go with something pre-08? Thank you all for your input, I think it contributed a lot to this discussion.

 

[jkust]

Re: New boats seem cheaply made.

I agree and it is no coincidence why I selected my Sig boat back when I bought it. There weren't any of the other run of the mill brands that made a nice bowrider that fit in my garage since Cobalt didn't make anything that size any longer. It takes all of 5 seconds in a boat to see who cuts corners in their small models and who doesn't. That said even the Chaparrals have now dummbed down their products with an entry level H20 series.

 

[viper1]

Re: New boats seem cheaply made.

Wow when I read new boats are constructed cheaper I thought you meant it. Not some frigging glove box or trim. Look at new homes ,cars any thing. On a boat construction I look at performance ,hulls and structure. But then thats just me.

 

[oops!]

Re: New boats seem cheaply made.

On a boat construction I look at performance ,hulls and structure. But then thats just me.

the hulls and super structure ot the boat were the first thing to get cut back !

take the thickness of the hull in a standard 20' runabout for example.

the thickness of the entire hull used to be standard.....when the chopper gun shot the boat....the guy laid the same amount all over the boat.

then ....when things went down......the gun controller was told to shoot less where the hull had expanding foam as a backing.
(the anti crush of the foam supported the fiberglass and re inforced the flex stregnth)
but wherever ther was no foam the laminate is the usual thickness !

 

[jkust]

Re: New boats seem cheaply made.

Wow when I read new boats are constructed cheaper I thought you meant it. Not some frigging glove box or trim. Look at new homes ,cars any thing. On a boat construction I look at performance ,hulls and structure. But then thats just me.

That makes no sense. The boats with the thick hulls and robust structure generally have the well constructed glove boxes and trim. I can get good performance or at lease speed out of any old pos with some effort. If I want a fast boat for cheap, I will get a Stingray but I will also not get the same level of everything else as some others. I don't think performance when I hear good construction. Take a look at the entry level Formula as my bro in law has the 24 foot entry level model as his downsized/kids are gone boat. Unprecedented construction and sure it handles well but fast it is not even with a huge i/o.

 

[Philster]

Re: New boats seem cheaply made.

There are ebbs and flows in drive mechanicals, too. If Mercruiser or Volvo are hurting, the mechanicals go into stale periods. Look at the engines, too. They remain somewhat unchanged from GM, more or less for stretches, but if GM ain't doing anything up the line, it ain't making its way down the line.

Heck... a manifold-riser update might be overdue by three years, even though known problems are out there, and even though new-but-still-crappy pieces are getting slapped on engines. Merc will bury its head on this if it can't tackle it (this has happened during a boom in boating, because of the lag. It was fixed in time for the lull in the economy).

If you look at outboards, there is an ebb and flow there, too. Even if the economy picks up, the industry might lag behind. The R&D might be 3-4 years behind.

So... I don't think I'd worry about a glove box. I'd worry about serious issues, and you gotta hang out with a lot of boat-heads and motor-heads to know the deal. A corroding exhaust system that will turn your 10,000 engine into an anchor in two years is much more important that a glove box that will only last five years instead of 10.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: New boats seem cheaply made.

Definitely some cycles or phases that the manufacturer's go through . . .

I'm am partial to Formula Boats, which are generally regarded as being 'higher end' boats.

However, it is interesting to note that during the 1990's they seemed to go through a period when everything got a bit 'cheaper'. The instrumentation panel was not as detailed, the grab rails when from stainless to plastic, no more racing grade controls, etc. I would imagine that they got some not-so-favorable feedback during this time frame. Then about in the year 2000 or so, it all came back and the components were once again higher end.

So, it does seem that some manufacturer's even go through phases, based on what is going on within the company and the feeback they are getting from their customers, etc.

 

[Philster]

Re: New boats seem cheaply made.

Know what hurts the most? That the cheaper boats are sustainable. The premium brands that haven't extended their lines to include cheaper boats run a high risk and they've fallen like flies.

 

[jkust]

Re: New boats seem cheaply made.

So... I don't think I'd worry about a glove box. I'd worry about serious issues, and you gotta hang out with a lot of boat-heads and motor-heads to know the deal. A corroding exhaust system that will turn your 10,000 engine into an anchor in two years is much more important that a glove box that will only last five years instead of 10.

Yes but small bowriders at a boat show where you can't water test them are more easily judged by their accessories and build quality especially to the the people that buy small bowriders. I'm not talking a super blingly glastron with the shiny speaker covers distracting you from a ho hum everything else however. If I was in the market for something with $10,000 (which I realize is not much $) or maybe $30,000 worth of engines, I'd make it my business to know about the corroding exhaust system. See in MN I bet 1/10th of 1% of boats are even 20 feet so we focus almost exclusively on 18 and 19 foot bowriders (for the non fishing crowd) and those boats have at most a 5.7 carb or 5.0 MPI. There are maybe two lakes around that have a concentration of wealth to have those motor head type of boaters. If you want an upgrade to your boat, you aren't going to go out and buy a 24 footer most likely but a better quality 18 or 19 footer. You may start with a Bayliner or something inexpensive just to get out on the water but you upgrade in quality not size here so are in the same class of engines. In other words we care about the glove box.