Need more ponies

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Thanks to the administrative error my past thread was lost, but do remember some of the questions for those that was trying to help me. <br /><br />To make things clear, here is what I have. 1977 Balyiner Victoria, 27 1/2', 8' beam. Unloaded/Dry weight of 7,460 pounds. (Weighed at scales and deducting the 1,260 pounds for the trailer). The engine is a 350 Chevy marine. The outdrive has Chris Craft on it, but is an AQ280. The exhaust manifolds say Marine Power, but are listed as Chris Craft to obtain parts. So what I understand is that the drive system is Chris Craft.<br /><br />One question I remember is what was the size of my trim tabs. The tabs are 8x18". <br /><br />Someone had posted about the DUOPROP conversion. Where can I find more info on this setup?<br /><br />Then there is my question on the VORTEC heads. Are they Aluminum? If they are, will the weight of the exhaust manifolds/risers put too much strain on them causing them to warp? They weigh about 90 lbs.<br /><br />Nitrous is out of the question! But if I can get some ideas for that extra power that would be great! Thanks for the input and may a jellyfish crawl up Steve's butt!

 

[snapperbait]

Re: Need more ponies

Howdy Ho SS MAYFLOAT:... Here's the low down on the vortec heads.. They are cast iron..About $500 a pair.... I belive you will need a different intake manifold to match up with the different bolt pattern on those heads.... Check with Jegs or Summit racing.. They have all the stuff for the heads that you will need..<br /> www.jegs.com<br /><br />www.SummitRacing.com<br /><br /> I did see a place in a hod rod magazine who offered the heads, modified to work with the older intake manifold bolt pattern.. I'll keep looking for their web address for ya...<br /><br />A good split duration/split lift camshaft with about 204intake/216exhaust duration@ .050" and .427"intake/.454"exhaust lift with a 112-114 degree lobe center would be a good choice for good torque in your lower rpm (from idle) range with good power through 4500 rpm's... This cam will work well with lower compression ratios (8 to 1 - 9 to 1) to allow use of 87-89 octane gas.... With any more compression your looking at 92-93 octane gas requirements....<br /><br />Your trim tabs might be a bit small I think... Perhaps some tabs 24" X 12" would be better...

 

[Tabman II]

Re: Need more ponies

SS MAYFLOAT,<br /><br />I am Thomas and I work for Bennett Marine in the Client Service department with Tabman (Tom McGow).<br /><br />snapperbait is on the right track regarding a little larger trim tab on your vessel, since we would recommend 30 x 9's on it. Depending on the current location of your trim tabs, you could get away with replacing them with 24 x 12's and not need to relocate the actuators to the center of the trim tab. Of course, this is assuming you have Bennett Trim Tabs installed AND they are currently mounted inboard 3 to 4 inches in from the chine. If not, then another route is to replace just the Trim Plane Only with an 18 x 12 w/ 3" Drop Fins on the sides and still use your current mounting plates. If you have anymore questions, please feel free to contact me at the at the email address below.<br /><br />I look forward to your reply.<br /><br />Good luck,<br />MJ Thomas<br />Bennett Marine, Inc.<br />Client Services<br />trimtabs@earthlink.net

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Need more ponies

Tabman, thanks for your response. Being in the commercial kitchen repair service, I have access to lots of stainless. This winter I'll take the ole plasma and cut out some stainless to add to my existing tabs. Will 14ga. be thick enough? That is what is on there now. I figure that I can butt the new add on tabs up to the piano hinge and then have the excess extend out past the old tabs. Then where the actuater is, I will strengthen with a piece of stainless angle to run the length of the tab to give it stability. Do you think this will work? Seems to be an easy fabrication project.<br /><br />The DuoProp that was mentioned earlier sounds like a good idea, but $4700 is a bit much. That is more than I paid for the boat/trailer.<br /><br />To get the extra power I need, would increasing my compression help gain the 30 extra ponies that I'm looking for? I know that a higher octane will be needed and it is not available at marinas that I know of. So would the octane booster additives allow me to use normal gas with the higher compression? Just a thought, thanks for the input.

 

[snapperbait]

Re: Need more ponies

I would not go for more than 9 to 1 on the compression if your runnin 87-89 octane... Don't waste your $$$ on octane boosters....<br /><br />Not to start a debate fuel octane ratings, but a properly tuned engine WILL produce more power on LOWER octane fuel than if one used higher octane fuel....<br /><br />If you go with the camshaft I mentioned above and use just plain ol' stock (not vortec)76cc combustion chamber cylinder heads with 1.94" intake 1.50" exhaust valves, fresh valve springs and valve job with 1.5 roller rocker arms and 9:1 compression ratio with a Edelbrock Performer marine intake manifold and your Q-jet carb (600 cfm?).. This should produce approximately 285-300 Horsepower... But more important to your case this set up will produce peak torque at lower RPM's where you need it most for plaining.. <br /><br /> The Vortec cylinder heads with this same 9:1 compression ratio (vortec heads have 64 cc combustion chambers and will require different pistons to achive 9:1) will be good for 300-315 Horsepower and just slightly more torque all on 87-89 octane fuel...

 

[Solittle]

Re: Need more ponies

SS - I had one of those 1977 Bayliner Victorias. I had the 350 with a Volvo outdrive (don't remember the model). I think that you will find that unless you do some serious mods to the 350 that you will not be satisfied with it's ability to get up on a plane - and stay there. That boat really needs a big block motor.<br /><br />I had tabs and after much frustration on not being able to plane, I found a prop that would enable me to get up on plane. When on plane it was working its heart out to stay there. And that is with just me on board.<br /><br />I had it on a triple axle trailer and it was 35' from the front of the trailer to the back of the outdrive. It was a terror to pull down the road let alone the joys experienced on the boat ramp.<br /><br />I finally sold it 6 weeks before hurricane Andrew payed a visit to our neighborhood.

 

[John Carpenter]

Re: Need more ponies

A relatively painless way to pump up the 350 is to bore it out .030 over and install a crank out of a 400...available from many sources. This creates a 383 Stroker...strong engine which will put out about 325 hp.

 

[snapperbait]

Re: Need more ponies

Good call Relentless... <br /><br />The stroker crank is a good idea... Talk to your machine shop before ya shell out the bucks though....<br /><br /> Just a few things to consider are the main bearing journals on a 400 crank must be machined to fit the 350 blocks mains.. The engine block must also be machined at the oil pan rail for clearance of the 400 cranks counterweights... <br /><br />There are some issues there with the external balance on the 400 crank (requires different flywheel or counter balance plate and harmonic damper) verses the internal balance 350 crank... <br /><br />Some of the big parts houses sell cast 383 cranks ready to go for around $350...<br /><br />383's make a good high torque engine when properly equiped....

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Need more ponies

Thanks Guys! I think we are are headed in the right direction. And a special thanks to So Little. His comment helped re-enforce what my problem is with this boat. There for awhile I was thinking it was something that I was doing wrong. The dang on thing acts like I'm trying to take off with two anchors in the water.<br /><br />My son may have come up with a good idea. 16 and has a good idea? What am I saying? But I try to be un biased. He thinks I should take the 350 out of the Victoria and put it in my Stingray V-20. Then take the 153 and put in the Victoria. Put on a small pitch prop. He says since the lake I use it on is so small and there is really no reason that I have to "Cruise" anywhere. That way the V-20 will be my easy trailering boat to go to lake Erie. That way we would have the power to get out of harms way when the storms kick up. He does make a point. Lots of more work though. Does his idea make sense?

 

[Solittle]

Re: Need more ponies

SS - E-mail me if you have any other questions. hw8478@bellsouth.net

 

[Tabman II]

Re: Need more ponies

SS MAYFLOAT,<br /><br />Many clients have tried to "add-on" more trim plane area in the same fashion as you state, but have had limited success. The welding changes the corrosion fighting capabilities of the stainless steel, so they fail at these points first. Also, extending the Span (side-to-side) beyond the hinge's support allows the plane to flex back and forth, which will fail in the end too. The easiest route will be to check your Available Mounting Area on your transom (determined by starting 3" to 4" in from chine and measuring to within 8" of centerline of outdrive) to see what size trim plane you are able to fit. Then take a look at the trim plane sizes that fall in the range to see how much they will cost you. I am betting you can fit 24 x 12's, but if not then 18 x 12 w/3" Drop Fins will be better than the 18 x 9's you are currently using. <br /><br />If you have any more questions, please contact me at trimtabs@earthlink.net.<br /><br />Good luck,<br />MJ Thomas<br />Bennett Marine, Inc.<br />Client Services

 

[coupedeville]

Re: Need more ponies

Did I miss something somewhere? <br />You were complaining that your 260hp V8 won't get you on plane very easily, and now you want to replace it with an engine of about half that power? What, exactly, does that solve? <br /><br />Anyway, if you are still looking for more power, try swapping intake manifolds and carbs. A nice Edelbrock Performer and a matching carb should give you a noticible extra kick.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Need more ponies

Sounds to me like the kids got a point......the little motor in the barge, for displacement speeds.... then the big motor in the little boat for the speed...... Yep, i like that kid......

 

[coupedeville]

Re: Need more ponies

If you're still looking for more oomph , have a look here:<br /> http://www.cfm-tech.com/Catalog/chevy_small_block_-_auto__marine__and_racing_107310_products.htm

 

[Walt T]

Re: Need more ponies

That boat is underpowered. Getting a few more ponies is not going to help. The only way you'll be happy with that 5.7 is with a supercharger. That costs about as much as a 454 conversion, and a 454 would last much longer. Trust me, been there done that, it's NOT worth fiddling with the 350.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Need more ponies

Thanks guys for the comments. DieselWalt I think has the best solution to my problem. I have been told that the 280 outdrive will handle the BB 454. Providing no pounding the heck out of it. The 454 should bolt right up to me outdrive if I am correct. Then all that is left is the exhaust manifolds. Is there anything else that would be different on the conversion?<br /><br />Then I can put the 350 in my 20'Stingray and be happy on that end. Thanks again... gotta look for a BB.