Need major help! Hull has water in it. Not sure why. PLEASE REPLY!!!

[mistyb]

I am new to this forum, but I really need some help.

I have a 1986 Century Meridian 275 - We are relative novice's to boating. We have owned the boat for the past 3 years. Here is the situation....

We put it up last october for storage for the winter. Covered it, closed it up, winterized engines, drained water, etc.

When we went to uncover it last month, we discovered that somehow a LOT of water had come in through the hatch. The only reasonable explanation that I have come up with is

1) Someone broke into it through the hatch (Latch is broken) or

2) ice built up under the hatch and broke the latch allowing a lot of water intrusion.

And while we did not have a particularly snowy winter here in southern Michigan, we did have several periods of prolonged freezing temps, down into the single digits at times. When we went over it this summer there was excessive damage to the floor inside the cabin.. Looked like all the plywood just sort of separated. Maybe from freezing? and expanding? then maybe the excessive heat caused it to become more deteriorated more quickly? not sure.

SO.... We pulled up the subfloor to discover a copious amount of foam. I had expected to find the stringers (I've hear different things, and have been told the hull is a foam core hull, and that the stringers wouldn't be that far up, and are comprised of fiberglass therefore should not be affected...

Anyhow, not finding any evidence of wood rot, and only SATURATED foam, I was a bit relieved initially... UNTIL I thought about, what if that water froze in there? What kind of damage could it cause to the hull???

Also, I am wondering if 1) someone broke in or 2) ice broke the hatch latch ---- either of which broke the latch and caused water intrusion, would that likely be something I can claim on my boating insurance? Thanks in advance!

Misty

 

[MarkSee]

Re: Need major help! Hull has water in it. Not sure why. PLEASE REPLY!!!

would that likely be something I can claim on my boating insurance?

Probably depends on who and type of insurance you have but if it was me, I'd get on the phone right now with the insurance company and see how they want to proceed as if it is believed someone broke in, they may require a police report.

Mark

PS: Welcome to IBOATS

 

[mistyb]

Re: Need major help! Hull has water in it. Not sure why. PLEASE REPLY!!!

I already contacted the insurance company and they are sending someone out on Monday... We keep it in a recreational vehicle storage facility, and check on it about once a month or so. A few times that cover had been off partially, however I am not sure how long.

I am very concerned with the water in the hull, as it is dry stored outside. The foam is saturated. Any idea what potential damage may have been caused if the water would have frozen and thawed repeatedly over the winter?

Thanks!

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Need major help! Hull has water in it. Not sure why. PLEASE REPLY!!!

first, it's probably too late to file a claim, even if you could prove burglary. not likely.

As for damage, you can 'what if" yourself crazy. yes anything freezing and expansion/contraction can cause problems. but not always. dig out the foam, check for real problems, don't sweat the others.

 

[mistyb]

Re: Need major help! Hull has water in it. Not sure why. PLEASE REPLY!!!

Would anyone happen to know where the stringers in this boat are located at? We have cored the foam 20 inches either side of center keel and have yet to come in contact with them... Thanks

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Need major help! Hull has water in it. Not sure why. PLEASE REPLY!!!

The plwood in the cabin seperated (delaminated) from the freeze thaw cycle and water intrusion. I'm sure this happened when the cover was partially blown off. Instead of the cover protecting your boat, it channeled water into your boat with the partial covering. It's amazing how much water can enter a boat through a small breach in the cover, it acts like a funnel.

There may not be any stringers, it may be a Balsa core construction boat.

If your foam is saturated, you need to remove all of it anyway, if you don't find stringers you have a balsa boat... or a previous owner has done a really shoddy restoration on your boat, which is entirely possible.

 

[mistyb]

Re: Need major help! Hull has water in it. Not sure why. PLEASE REPLY!!!

The plwood in the cabin seperated (delaminated) from the freeze thaw cycle and water intrusion. I'm sure this happened when the cover was partially blown off. Instead of the cover protecting your boat, it channeled water into your boat with the partial covering. It's amazing how much water can enter a boat through a small breach in the cover, it acts like a funnel.

There may not be any stringers, it may be a Balsa core construction boat.

If your foam is saturated, you need to remove all of it anyway, if you don't find stringers you have a balsa boat... or a previous owner has done a really shoddy restoration on your boat, which is entirely possible.

Thanks for the information... I am really very upset. We changed the hatch seals at the end of next season, properly winterized the engines. Pumped out the holding tank and added anti-freeze, drained the fresh water tank. Ran the gas low, and added Stabil, fogged the engines, Check the seals to make sure there were not any leaks and still, we have to deal with the damage to the floor, and the saturated foam...

With regard to stingers I have been told that the century stringers only go about 1/4 to 1/3 of the way into the cabin and the remainder of the cabin is a FoamCore hull.... I am not sure how accurate that is, though after coring out a large portion of the foam that seems to be true to the description I was told.... Another problem though, is that we have the boat tipped up to aid in draining any water that may have gotten in it over the winter and spring, and that caused the water to run down the floor toward the aft cabin... There is no damage on anything other than the floor. We have pulled up the carpet around the cabinets, the dinette bench seat platform, the aft cabin platform and non of that appears to be discolored, softened, swollen, or altered in any way from what it should look like, only the floor itself... The wet foam is a bit strange too.

There is a water line on the foam about 2 inches down... Then about 5 inches of dry feeling foam (no moisture is apparent at all) then about 1 inch of thoroughly saturated foam, with pooling in the keel.

I guess a lot of what I am concerned about is if the cover was pulled off of the boat during a storm, and essentially funneled water into the boat, and flooded the foam, what kind of damage could that cause to the hull? If it was just water is there a major concern? if it froze over winter is that likely to have damaged the hull???

BTW - there is no apparent rot in the transom area. The mounts for the engines are tight and do not move, the wood is clean and solid sounding with no flexing, and no discoloration from exposure to water...

Another question... Would excessive heat (IE: 95 degrees outside ) that caused excessive temperatures in the cabin create additional problems and accelerate the deterioration of the plywood sub-floor? Thanks Sorry so long!

 

[mistyb]

Re: Need major help! Hull has water in it. Not sure why. PLEASE REPLY!!!

first, it's probably too late to file a claim, even if you could prove burglary. not likely.

As for damage, you can 'what if" yourself crazy. yes anything freezing and expansion/contraction can cause problems. but not always. dig out the foam, check for real problems, don't sweat the others.

The thing that gets me with the burglary issue, is there are 3 screws removed from the aft cabin window which is accessible from the deck, and there is a distinct pry bar damage there. Also there are apparent tool marks on the seal of the hatch and both hatch seals are broken, which they were not in october when we parked it. That said There was nothing of value inside the boat (wth exception to the engines obviously) that they would have taken. Ship to Shore, Dock Lines, Life Vests, Dock Poles, Bumpers, Stereo, Fish Finder, Depth Sounder, and EVERYTHING else was removed from the cabin, deck, and any storage compartments and stored at home in our garage- Just not sure is all

 

[Lakes84]

Re: Need major help! Hull has water in it. Not sure why. PLEASE REPLY!!!

You're just going to have to dig all of the wet foam out plain and simple. When you pull all of the wet out and you get only dry foam, just hope you haven't gotten to the stringers. If you didn't reach them, then you're probably OK. Even if it did get to them, they're encased in FG, so You'll more than likely be good to go still. Sorry about your problems, I feel for ya...-Joe

 

[mistyb]

Re: Need major help! Hull has water in it. Not sure why. PLEASE REPLY!!!

You're just going to have to dig all of the wet foam out plain and simple. When you pull all of the wet out and you get only dry foam, just hope you haven't gotten to the stringers. If you didn't reach them, then you're probably OK. Even if it did get to them, they're encased in FG, so You'll more than likely be good to go still. Sorry about your problems, I feel for ya...-Joe

I want to wait til the insurance people come out, and see if they will allow a claim.... I am scared that it has damaged the hull, like cracking if it froze during winter? I dont know... I know the policy excludes rot- But this is less like rot and more like wood separation... I dont know... if the claim is denied then I guess we will proceed with the repairs...

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Need major help! Hull has water in it. Not sure why. PLEASE REPLY!!!

look, boats don't instantly rot the second water touches the inside of the hull. The water has to get through the fiberglass that covers the stringers. that requires cracks and holes. and water sitting there constantly. it also takes a while for foam to get saturated.

I don't think I'd start drilling into your stringers just to see. But remove the wet foam. the fact that you have dry foam, too, is a good sign.

As for insurance, it may cover the direct damage such as a broken hatch but I would be surprised if it would cover the indirect. but maybe so, like vandalism. won't hurt to ask.

 

[Solittle]

Re: Need major help! Hull has water in it. Not sure why. PLEASE REPLY!!!

You wrote "I am scared that it has damaged the hull, like cracking if it froze during winter? " - Not to worry about damage/cracking to the hull itself. While that may seem to be huge - actually you have found the huge problem already. At this point the question is how far does the damage go. If it involves all of the foam it could involve the stringers and transom core and that is huge.

Be super nice to your insurance guy and read the policy before you see him so that you can get an idea on how to steer the conversation.

 

[mistyb]

Re: Need major help! Hull has water in it. Not sure why. PLEASE REPLY!!!

You wrote "I am scared that it has damaged the hull, like cracking if it froze during winter? " - Not to worry about damage/cracking to the hull itself. While that may seem to be huge - actually you have found the huge problem already. At this point the question is how far does the damage go. If it involves all of the foam it could involve the stringers and transom core and that is huge.

Be super nice to your insurance guy and read the policy before you see him so that you can get an idea on how to steer the conversation.

The transom seems fine. our n the entire deck from starboard side to port side, roughly 6 ft ny 5 ft. There is not any discoloration to and the sound is consistent houitt. the bilge rea is completely dry, with only a bit of oil that spilled last year when we were my lubing everything replaced, as will the foam. a section of foam 10 iches wide and aboow if insurance doesn't cover it, we will have zto do the work. after coring

 

[mistyb]

Re: Need major help! Hull has water in it. Not sure why. PLEASE REPLY!!!

You wrote "I am scared that it has damaged the hull, like cracking if it froze during winter? " - Not to worry about damage/cracking to the hull itself. While that may seem to be huge - actually you have found the huge problem already. At this point the question is how far does the damage go. If it involves all of the foam it could involve the stringers and transom core and that is huge.

Be super nice to your insurance guy and read the policy before you see him so that you can get an idea on how to steer the conversation.

The transom seems fine. our engine covers come off and open the entire deck from starboard side to port side, roughly 6 ft ny 5 ft. There is not any discoloration to the transom wood. when hit with the tap hammer, the wood sounds just like new wood. and the sound is consistent throughouitt. the bilge area is completely dry, with only a bit of oil that spilled last year when we were my lubing everything for winter. The only area that seems to be we it about a 10 inch section of foam (5 inches either side off center keel) from about 6 inches back from step to v-berth to about 8 inches forward of aft cabin step. I know all the wood will have to be replaced, as will the foam. a section of foam 10 inches wide and about 2 ft long has been removed, and water pools in keel about 2 inches deep. the foam seems dry but that can be deceiving . We cored out to the hull on either side about mid cabin about 20 inches from center keel and everything outside the 5 inch range seemed dry. the foam was still attached to the hull itself in those areas, which would be about 14-16 inches above the lowest spot in the hull where the water is pooling. Would I have to remove all the foam, or can I just remove the stuff that's wet? Just stressed. I know if insurance doesn't cover it, we will have to do the work. after coring the wood that supports the cabinets, dinette table, aft cabin and v berth every 3 inches ( small sample) nothing appears to be affected by the water damage, only the windpipe and center foam. there may have been an issue previous to us owning it, as the floor had been patched. but it was confined to about a 5" by 8" section under the hatch. the peson who did it never glasses over the new wood. so I assume that would have accelerated any potential delamination of the plywood, and if there was rot, would have certainly exacerbated the issue. then exposing it to the high heat of the summer, the constant moisture was definitely a big issue.

I do know that when we put it up for storage, everything was water tight. we washed the exterior extensively, as there was copious amount of bird poop from storing it at the marina . we checked all the seals at that time. took it parked it, covered it, and went home.

its just amazing that water got in, and I can't figure out how, other than through the hatch . maybe ice built up and popped the latch, they are plastic screw type utility hatches, either that or someone other it open. not sure. but those are the only reasonable answers, I'm going with the pry. because in the aft cabin window on the,outside, there is a pry Mark, and three screws are missing. not sure what to think of that, as again when we stored it, it was not that way at all.

Thanks again for all the informative answers .

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Need major help! Hull has water in it. Not sure why. PLEASE REPLY!!!

wait a minute. Water pools at the keel? water should drain out and you raise the bow so that it will. I am thinking now that you have been collecting water there (or the previous owner did) for years.

"The good news is I don't know what I'm talking about." I don't know your boat. But I would be suprise dof any boat was designed not to drain.

Not that you need something else to worry about

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Need major help! Hull has water in it. Not sure why. PLEASE REPLY!!!

We really need to see pics of this disaster.

 

[monkey99]

Re: Need major help! Hull has water in it. Not sure why. PLEASE REPLY!!!

The problem that I'm having is the gear shifter located on the lower section of the out broad motor is not responding to the command given at the main throttle control located on deck. I also noticed that when I'm trying to change from neutral, drive ,and reverse the throttle button gets jammed and won't allow the conversion. If the boat does go into drive or reverse it kills before converting back. The only thing I had done was change out the impeller, which after being reinstalled had the gear stuck in drive. I then pulled the lower portion of the outboard motor back down, reinstalled, and it is now struck in neutral. I have checked gear oils which were low but have been topped off. Nevertheless I'm at a lost, yet feels that I'm close to the solution. Any ideas or advice......?

 

[NYBo]

Re: Need major help! Hull has water in it. Not sure why. PLEASE REPLY!!!

Welcome to iboats, monkey.

Please start your own thread instead of hijacking this one.

 

[mistyb]

Re: Need major help! Hull has water in it. Not sure why. PLEASE REPLY!!!

I understand about the degree the boat needs to be lifted to drain. the low part of our cabin is a few inches lower than the drain at center transom. that being said, when we pulled it from the water, we jacked up the front of the boat, to let any water that may have gotten up there to drain, now let me explain a bit further. the floor under the cabin is completely filled with a very dense foam. don't know if I am saying this right, but from center keel to where the fiberglass turns from the bottom to the wall, we have found nothing but foam, aprox. 23 inches. under B-berth, just ans everything foam, under dinette bench only foam, under fridge and sink, only foam, we are only about 5 feet back from step up to B-berth bed. everything below floor level appears to be just solid foam. its only appears to be wet about 5-6 inches out from center keel. we have cored down to keel in 4 places and removed the foam. its like the water is seeping out of the foam and pooling in the holes. not more than 2 inches. the water is not at all discolored, its as clear as water coming from the tap in your home. it can't have been there that long to put off no odor. it smells damp, but not must, or mold, or mildew, the foam is the same color throughout and other than,at center, the dust from coring blows right off my hand.

I did have the police come out and filed a report. the officer noted the pry Marks, and said the.plastic hatch latches were broke consistent with pry, and there are cracks in the class in opposite co rner of hatch . he determined the cause if damage.to be due to malicious destruction. I am certain that's where the wAter came from based on the drip marks. Detective also took pictures of foot prints on bow, that are consistent with male foot size 11. I wear an 8, my husband wears a 13 1/2.

Hope insurance will cover it. when we drained the boat, we left it jacked up til no water came out for 24 hours.

 

[Lakes84]

Re: Need major help! Hull has water in it. Not sure why. PLEASE REPLY!!!

Besides, pulling all of your wet foam out, Damp Rid, or an equivalent will help take moisture out of your boat, every little bit helps.You don't want mildew or mold to start forming. -Joe