Need informed opinions on rebuild

Jcstratt

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 24, 2005
Messages
35
I have a 2000 90hp Johnson with a bad cylinder (broken sleeve). This was not an oil related failure. I have been told it can be re-sleeved. I found someone local who has been in business for over 20 years that will resleeve it for $250 plus $9 per hole to hone. I have rebuilt motors before, but they were all 4-stroke car and motorcycle engines. I am very mechanically inclined. <br />I have a couple of options.<br /> <br />1.) I can tear it down and have it resleeved/honed and rebuild it. No warranty on failure here.<br /> a.) replace only those parts that failed for about $500.<br /> b.) replace all pistons, rings, bearings, etc. for $1000-1200.<br /><br />2.) I can get a remanufactured powerhead for around $2500 (2150 after core) or maybe a bit less with a 12-15month warranty and install it myself.<br /><br />Also, I have been looking at the Johnson parts breakdowns and it appears the differences between 90 and 115 are all in the powerhead. I could eat the core charge (or maybe not) and up it to a 115. My boat is rated for 120 and runs about 34mph now.<br /><br />What would you guys do?<br /><br />Edit 1: Where would you go for parts or a powerhead? I've seen them listed, but who has good products/reputation?<br /><br />Edit 2: I have found a new 115 powerhead for $2740.
 

Solittle

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Apr 28, 2002
Messages
7,518
Re: Need informed opinions on rebuild

JC - All those are viable options - your call.
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: Need informed opinions on rebuild

The answer to this question will answer all the others -- what caused the damage? Did you find the cause and fix that or are we just fixing the result?
 

Jcstratt

Seaman Apprentice
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Jul 24, 2005
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35
Re: Need informed opinions on rebuild

I have been sitting here looking at the pics I took of it. The cylinder is definitely more polished than the other in that bank. Maybe oil was the issue. I'm not sure. The cylinder is clean other than a scratch or two from the ring. You can still see the cross hatch. The piston and head are another story. They are beat. I was planning a a good cleaning of the carbs anyway. Perhaps they should get new seals and all as well. I didn't notice any sign prior to the failure.<br /><br />At this point, I guess we are fixing the results. I'm not sure of the cause.
 

david18

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 22, 2005
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35
Re: Need informed opinions on rebuild

The motor you mention is one of the most common OMC engines ever built. I would not pay to have it sleeved when you can find a good block for under $100. Any V4 made in the late 80's or all thru the 90's will fit.<br /><br />Next, if you are going to the trouble of tearing it down, do yourself a favor and have all 4 holes bored and get 4 new pistons. Go to Seiler Marine.com and they have Wiseco piston, ring and wrist pin for about $90 a piece.<br /><br />Even if you get a good block for around $100 you should be able to do the entire rebuild for under $1000.
 

walleyehed

Admiral
Joined
Jun 29, 2003
Messages
6,767
Re: Need informed opinions on rebuild

With the above posts in mind, how long would you like your engine to run after your O/H?????<br />I do this for half of my living..Dhadley has done this for many years producing V4's that will hurt V6's where it counts...<br />Your answer, truthfully, will dictate what I will suggest.
 

Cortes165

Seaman
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Messages
65
Re: Need informed opinions on rebuild

I just went through this. I too have rebuilt sleds and autos so I thought this would be easy. Lol.... Just a few things to consider.<br />*with a replacement powerhead, you still have to bolt on all the other stuff, carbs, ignition, etc.<br />Then you still have to get it set up properly, timing, carbs, all the links, etc.<br />*I found there were just too many unknown things that only you learn from experience. :confused: I didn't feel comfy with all these unknowns. <br />Between your first post and the next, you're already confused if it was oil or not. (sorry, not trying to pic on you). <br />I ended up finding a shop that put the engine back together. <br />Only one real word of advise. If you bring to a shop, ask around to find one that get positive reviews.<br />I like saving money too, but felt better paying someone that knew what he was doing.<br />Yah, it cost a couple bucks more, but imagine, I have been out the last 2 weekends enjoying the water. :) To me it was money well spent.<br />Just my opinion.........good luck
 

AJ168

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 30, 2005
Messages
295
Re: Need informed opinions on rebuild

Before you do any of this, go onto nada guides and check the value of the engine. If the cost for repairs exceeds the value, just forget about it, unless you really want that engine or want to do a rebuild as a hobby or something.
 

walleyehed

Admiral
Joined
Jun 29, 2003
Messages
6,767
Re: Need informed opinions on rebuild

That's not the best advice in my opinion...where do you come up with the extra 6k to replace what you can rebuild, unless it is strictly an investment.<br />My 1982 V6 will outrun a new one like they forgot to put a piston in it...Trashing it isn't the only option, nor is it a good one.<br />NADA isn't even a good reference in this business..<br />I sold a 1997 115 last year for 2600.00 more than NADA said it was worth....and IT will outrun a new 115....without all the computor problems.
 

Jcstratt

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 24, 2005
Messages
35
Re: Need informed opinions on rebuild

I plan to keep the motor. I may one day trade the boat for a pontoon, but I had planned to keep the motor even then.<br /><br />So, yes, I want it to run right and run for a while. I have found a couple of new motors for under 5k, but that's still about twice what I want to spend.<br /><br />As for the failure, I may have half caused it myself and it may have been half caused by an improper previous repair to the same cylinder.<br />I had taken the boat to my mom and dad's place (they have lakefront property) and the lake was down a bit there. I had my truck in to the bumper and the boat wasn't yet floating. I rev'd it up a bit trying to back it off the trailer. I ended up having to push it off by hand. I probably didn't let it warm up enough first. It didn't seem to overheat, no HOT light, and the tell-tale looked good.<br /><br />Kenny, I am very interested in what you have to say. Reliability is more important to me than horsepower.<br /><br />Here are a few pics:<br /><br />Trashed bottom port side cylinder<br /> http://photobucket.com/albums/a78/jcstratt/?action=view&current=Picture050.jpg <br /><br />Same view of good upper port side cylinder:<br /> http://photobucket.com/albums/a78/jcstratt/?action=view&current=Picture056.jpg <br /><br />Another view of the trashed cylinder. Note missing ring section.<br /> http://photobucket.com/albums/a78/jcstratt/?action=view&current=Picture049.jpg
 

walleyehed

Admiral
Joined
Jun 29, 2003
Messages
6,767
Re: Need informed opinions on rebuild

Call Mar-Fab, in Sparta, TN., at 931-738-2815 and ask for Dan..<br />Tell him what you have, and tell him Kenny in Goodland, KS. recommended them...<br />I've had them do a few blocks for me, including a sleeve-job. I'm not sure there is anyone out there with more know-how and precision than these folks.<br />They are very competetive price-wise, and turn out the best work I think is possible.<br />These folks are also friends of Dhadley's through years of working relations, and that in itself is what sent me to them.<br />You can send them your block and they will do an incoming inspection with a fine-tooth comb, then let you know what your options are. They also do their best to suit YOUR needs-very friendly people.<br />Give Dan a call and see what he thinks.
 

Jcstratt

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 24, 2005
Messages
35
Re: Need informed opinions on rebuild

Just an update...I removed the powerhead and tore it down. I took the pistons and block to an older gentleman over in Dallas who's been doing outboards for 20-some years. I talked with him a bit and he seemed to be extremely knowledgeable and gave me answers I liked (reliability vs HP, rebuilding tips, etc). He looked at the block and immediately said "This has been rebuilt before". I told him that it had been by someone unknown to me. He said oil/lean definitely wasn't the problem. It took him like 3 seconds to tell me it failed because it had been bored .020 over in all 4 cylinders, but the ports hadn't been properly chamfered. He then looked at the bad piston (the one with the big chunk missing...and that damaged area being covered in the same amount of carbon as the rest of the piston) and said "I bet that happened the first time they started it after the rebuild."<br />The piston had old damage...and new damage. The new damage being a crack from the wrist pin boss to the skirt edge. Catastrophic failure seemed to be a mere few rpm's away.<br /><br />Anyway, that's it in a nutshell. The damage was caused by a poor rebuild. I feel alot better now knowing why it happened. He said he'd resleeve the bad cylinder for $250 and hone the rest as well as fix the other ports for no extra charge.<br />I still figure all this is still going to cost me at least $1000 after parts and all, but it was free. I figure a 2000 18' Fishmaster Travis Edition 186V and 2000 90hp Johnson is still a pretty good deal for a grand.
 
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