Need help understanding recirc valves and system for Evinrude 225 hp (1986)

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cfauvel

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Applies to many years and motors

ok so I tested all six of my recirc valves
[h=1]0392988 CHECK VALVE AY[/h] recirc_valve.png


only two actually worked correctly, in that flow went only one way (from thread side to nipple side), Two had the mesh/filter completely gone and whatever valve mechanism was there is gone too (I can literally see through it when held up to a light). .

So ordered brand new ones.

These valves are located behind the intake manifold , there is a hose that goes from there to a corresponding nipple on the side of the cylinder. These nipples appear to be pressed in. I don't believe these nipple would be another check valve , but are they?

here is what I need help understanding:

if I hook up a vacuum hose on those nipples at the cylinder, and pump up the vacuum....I hold vacuum as if A) there is a clog or B) there is a check valve.

if I hook up an air source (via hose, set at 5PSI) on those nipples at the cylinder, the air doesn't pass through and the hose pressurizes to 15 PSI until the hose pops off as if A) there is a clog or B) there is a check valve.

again I can't imagine there is a check valve there.

I've tried removing the spark plugs to see if the tests change.
I've tried turning the motor by hand to get the piston at a different location to see if the tests change
nothing different.


I would expect the nipples at the cylinder to simply be a pass through ....is that right?

is there a better test to try for the nipples at the cylinder?
 

cfauvel

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update: managed to figure out the recirc-valve....in essence it is just a rubber duckbill check valve....so holding vacuum is probably not going to happen, and using acetone may not be the best choice of solvent to clean them...

here is the guts of one of them
image_267908.jpg
image_267907.jpg image_267905.png image_267906.png
 

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Fed

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This is all I have mate, I suspect they move excess oil from the bottom of each crankcase chamber up to the top but I don't know for sure.
valves_opt.jpg
 

cfauvel

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​thanks....just found a similar section in my manual same cleaning tool part number . Looks like a drill bit.

so what I thought seems to be true....fluid should FREELY flow at the nipple on the cylinder.

​NONE of mine currently flow freely....tool is 28$....grrr

all six of my new check valves function as expected...
 

cfauvel

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update:
Got three of six nipples flowing...seems that the starboard side nipples are flowing...and all of the port side are plugged up...bought a special tool that supposed to be meant for clearing the clog...the tool will be here in a few days...
 

Fed

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Just noting from the manual if those nipples at times are fitted into by-pass covers then the whole recirc system is there to burn off any excess oil accumulating in the crankcase. Thoughts?
Dying to see this $28 nipple cleaning tool, I told the wife I'd buy one for Xmas she has NO sense of humour at all.
 

cfauvel

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Just noting from the manual if those nipples at times are fitted into by-pass covers then the whole recirc system is there to burn off any excess oil accumulating in the crankcase. Thoughts?
Dying to see this $28 nipple cleaning tool, I told the wife I'd buy one for Xmas she has NO sense of humour at all.


The flow is the other way....from behind the intake manifold the check valve exists, allowing flow out from there....then through a hose to the nipples at the base of the cylinder....so not totally convinced it is burning by-pass from the crank case rather than excess fuel/oil from the carbs ...


I could see how that with the reed valves letting in AF and stopping AF, that it would collect on the leading face of the reed valve....running down to some chamber where these check valve reside and having that fuel be drawn into the cylinder's intake port...


NOW to stir things up, there is a hose that starts at the TOP of the crankcase (port side), goes to a port at the bottom of the crankcase, gets TEEd to the bottom check valve on starboard side and eventually goes to the bottom-right nipple. Those two ports are probably draw in un-burnt AF into the cylinders' intake runners.



re: the wife.....no humor LOL

I'll post a pic the $28 drill bit when I get it..

thought about doing drive bys to evinrude dealers to see if they have any tools for 80s motors that they want to get rid of.
 

tblshur

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cfauvel , are u trying to correct a problem? this is a very interesting post since i have tried to learn about those valves and what effect they would have if they dont work thank you for your post and i will be eagerly awaiting more info .:joyous:
 

cfauvel

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cfauvel , are u trying to correct a problem? this is a very interesting post since i have tried to learn about those valves and what effect they would have if they dont work thank you for your post and i will be eagerly awaiting more info .:joyous:


well I read somewhere in a manual a bunch of symptoms (I can't seem to find them now, seriously I can't find the documentation anymore, but I KNOW I read it, paraphrased below)
1 - lower spark plugs showing signs of being richer or fouled
2 - excessive smoke at idle
3 - hard re-starting after sitting for a while (30+ minutes) after running for a while

I've also read here and The Hull Truth, people mentioning the recirc system as being the culprit.
I currently have all of those symptoms, thought it might be air leaks to the VRO2 pump ( found some oil leaks there and will post my findings on a new thread)

The symptoms are not that problematic....for years I've chocked it up to being a 2-stroke....but if there is a cure I want it.

interestingly the plugs that are more fouled are the ones on the port side, which happen to be the side where the nipples are clogged.....I would think they would be the drier ones....


So to summarize I may have had two issues. The possible leaks in the oil side of the VRO and the recirc valves as well as the clogged nipples....the manual calls the tool
OMC Nipple Cleaner P/N 326623

I am replacing the hoses for primer solenoid and check valves to nipples with clear fuel lines so I can see if fluid is passing through...
 

cfauvel

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UPDATE: got my nipple cleaning tool...kind of what I expected, but pleasantly surprised.

it is a nice aluminum tube, that is knurled and has a chuck...inside were several VERY tiny drill bits and 4 long wires. nipple_cleaning_tool.JPG



believe it or not the smallest drill is too big to insert into the secondary hole of the nipple.

only those very thin wires fit in the nipples.

the nipples have two holes...the one that you see and can stick a needle into is about 1/16", but about 1/4 " inside is a way smaller hole in which only the wire fits.

I got one nipple on the port side unclogged and have been trying to get the middle nipple unclogged...tomorrow I'll remove the relay box to gain access to the bottom port nipple.

I tried a single strand of ancor marine wire and that fits...then I took two strands and twisted them together...THAT is too thick for the secondary hole...

I thought about applying a touch to the nipple to try to burn the clog away...thoughts?
 
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Fed

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Neat little tool, I'd keep working away with the single wire, maybe something to soften the gunk.
 

cfauvel

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ugh...still trying the middle port nipple....I'll take a few more shots...but here are some pics of the a clear nipple and the clogged nipple.

recirc_nipple.png

clear_recirc_nipple.png
actually the wire that I used to clear the hole is .010 inch...the hole could be .015 (1/64)

The smallest drill bit that came with the tool is .020 inch



recirc_nipple_clogged_1.png
 

cfauvel

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well I got them all unclogged....ultimately I used the smallest drill bit that the tool had, which was .020 " , and went back to each other nipple and hand drilled the holes to be the same all the way around...

they all look like this now recirc_nipple_unclogged.png




here is the scale of the secondary hole

scale_of_020_hole.png
 
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cfauvel

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FED!!!
Epic fail on the clear fuel lines for the recirculation system, yesterday.

Whilst at speed the cylinders get hot enough to, not melt per se, but to allow the hose to be VERY pliable....all but one hose stayed on the nipples ....fuel/oil mix EVERYWHERE

round two is tiny zip ties at the nipples on both the cylinder nipple and valves...will see the outcome the next time we go out.

Glad it didn't cause a fire.
 

Pfain

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I’m going through the same process currently. Great thread by the way. I noticed my recirc lines appear to be routed the same as your YouTube video, however, it is not the routing called out in my service manual. The manual shows top intake valve routed to middle cylinder, middle valve to bottom cylinder, and bottom valve to top cylinder on each side respectively. Am I reading the wrong info or is the routing really not that critical? Thanks.
 
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