Need Dire Help with Shift Rod/linkage

[MASTER Brian]

I have an 86 Evinrude XP150. I rebuilt the PH and dropped the LU to replace the water pump. Now I can't for the life of me seem to get the shift rod/linkage correct.

I have dropped the LU twice now to set the height on the shift rod per the specs in the OMC Manual and it still doesn't seem right.

When I move the part of the linkage that goes through the intake manifold and bolts directly to the shift rod, I can get the boat to shift into reverse, neutral and then forward, but as soon as I hook the rest of that linkage up, not including the cables/remote control, it won't shift into reverse. It starts to but the prop doesn't seem to fully engage. It seems like it's right on the verge, but it just won't go.

I have tried adjusting the rod up, but that doesn't seem to help. I had at one point turned it up about 4 turns, but then it wouldn't engage in forward. 5 turns or so, unhooks it. You would think somewhere between where it is and 4 turns would work, but it doesn't do the trick.

Any ideas?? Am I doing something wrong.

At one point I thought I had it, but it had to be fully in foward or reverse to engage the prop. If I back off, it stayed, is that normal?

Someone please help....:%

 

[imported_lorin]

Re: Need Dire Help with Shift Rod/linkage

Are you checking the shift rod height with the gearcase in neutral? Lets assume there is nothing wrong inside the gearcase and the shift rod height height is correct. Then with the gearcase off the motor you should be able to shift it into neutral, forward and reverse by hand, that is, just grabbing the shift rod and pushing or pulling the rod up and down. If all of the preceeding is correct and it doesn't work when hooked up to the linkage then something must be messed up with the the linkage. If it won't go into reverse then something is preventing the rod from going down far enough. Is there another similar motor around whose linkage you could look at to compare?

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: Need Dire Help with Shift Rod/linkage

Yes, I'm checking the height in neutral. This is now the 2nd time I've dropped it and checked. Each time I have ensured it was in neutral. I figured maybe I screwed up the 1st time, but it doesn't appear so. I don't have the tool, so the 1st time I used a tape measure. This last time I took a piece of stiff rod and put a perfect 90 bend in it, so I could insert it into the hole on the shift rod and then measured down to the LU.

I can shift it into all gears by hand. I can even shift it into all gears by hand with the LU attached to motor assembly with the shift lever attached to the rod. The problem is that shift lever has to extend too far towards the rear for it to shift into reverse when the rest of the linkage is hooked up.

Logic tells me that to fix that, one would need to raise the height of the shift rod, so that the shift lever doesn't have to extend so far back. Problem is when I do that I start to get to where forward becomes an issue.

I did once have it to where it worked both ways, but I had to put the remote control all the way forward or back for it to engage the prop. Maybe that is normal, I don't know. Maybe when the boat is in the water and power applied, they'd engage. It just doesn't seem right to me, it seems like when I move the remote control out of the neutral range, the prop should be engaged.

So if I lost anyone, when should the prop engage and not free spin. Right when the remote is moved out of neutral or when the lever is pressed all the way back?

The only other boat similar that I have access to is a 70's trihull with a 70 or 75 HP evinrude on it. Maybe that's close enough. I did get a number of a local retired evinrude mech, who does this stuff for a hobby and was told he'd probably sit down and show me, but he doesn't get back until Sat and I'd like to figure this out before then, so I can get on the water.

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: Need Dire Help with Shift Rod/linkage

Duplicate post

 

[imported_lorin]

Re: Need Dire Help with Shift Rod/linkage

Using a tape measure for the shift rod height is ok and you should leave it at the height the manual says. You should not have to push the throttle all the forward or all the way back to engage gears.
You say that "I can shift it into all gears by hand. I can even shift it into all gears by hand with the LU attached to motor assembly with the shift lever attached to the rod." This shows that up to this point everything is ok.
You also said "as soon as I hook the rest of that linkage up, not including the cables/remote control, it won't shift into reverse."
This makes me think that something is stopping "the rest of the linkage" from moving far enough to fully engage reverse. Look and see what exactly is stopping the linkage from moving far enough to engage reverse. See what is in the way and if can be moved or adjusted. I dont remember the linkage on this motor but sometimes pieces of linkage on some models can get flipped 180 degrees and still get attached-that's why i suggested looking at another similar motor. I would not connect the cables to the motor until you can successfully shift the motor into gears by hand ( by moving the linkage) No reason to introduce another item (which may also be screwed up) into the equation.

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: Need Dire Help with Shift Rod/linkage

lorin, your logic seems good and I'll see if I can find another motor to look at. I feel I have tried everything to this point. I've even looked at the cables to see if I can see how the linkages might work if flipped another way, but I can't see it.

The thing that is stopping "the rest of the linkage" is the block of the motor. Particularly a bolt in the block, which has to be where it is. I'll look back over the linkage and see if something could have been flipped, but it all seems fine. There is a rough pic in the manual and I believe I have pics before. Maybe I'm missing something.

Thanks for the ideas... I know it has to be something stupid.

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: Need Dire Help with Shift Rod/linkage

Here are two pics, hope they aren't too big.

The one with the arrow shows where it hits, when I try to go into reverse. This is a pic prior to my rebuild, when everything worked, but shows where my issue lies.

The second is with me holding the shift rod lever, when the PH was off. Judging by that pic, maybe I'm installing that piece incorrectly, but I can't see how it goes the other way. It's notched to fit on the shift linkage only one way. Hmmm.... I guess I'll look again.

 

[imported_lorin]

Re: Need Dire Help with Shift Rod/linkage

can't see any of the pictures

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: Need Dire Help with Shift Rod/linkage

yeah, I can't either. I noticed that as soon as I posted, but I had to run for a minute. I hope this one works....

I'd like to edit or delete the other post, but can't seem to do anything with the attachments.:/

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: Need Dire Help with Shift Rod/linkage

ignore

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: Need Dire Help with Shift Rod/linkage

Let's try this....

 

[funpilot]

Re: Need Dire Help with Shift Rod/linkage

Brian,

Does your shift rod angle fwd when you attach it at your Power Head linkage?

fp

 

[Walker]

Re: Need Dire Help with Shift Rod/linkage

That should be plenty of movement. You should have neutral with that main linkage arm vertical. If not then you are doing someting wrong in your measuring or you have the wrong data.
And also what funpilot said.

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: Need Dire Help with Shift Rod/linkage

fp, I'm not sure I understand the question.

Are you asking if the angle on the shift rod faces forward? If so, yes is the answer to that. Should it be facing back instead? I'm not sure it would hook up any way but forward.

I did look and there is only the one direction to face that piece I'm holding in my hand, which is the shift rod lever, so that can't be wrong. Walker, that main linkage arm is vertical when in neutral. I must be doing something wrong, but what is the question. I'm getting the data from an OMC manual and from a clymers. Both can't be wrong. And even if they are, why wouldn't it go with adjustments?

 

[imported_lorin]

Re: Need Dire Help with Shift Rod/linkage

The angle on the shiftrod should face forward not backward. Your linkage looks ok. Maybe try this: Disconnect the linkage and maybe leave that shift rod lever on or off (whatever you think is better) and push the shift rod down by hand so that the motor goes into reverse. Then get a little paint brush or marker and put a mark on the shift rod. You could do this either just below the intake manifold, or underneth the lower engine cover where the rod is exposed for about an inch. Then shift back into neutral and hook up the linkage and then push the linkage as far back as it will go so it should be in reverse. Then look at your mark on the shift rod. If the motor is not in reverse now and the mark is in the same position (or maybe even a little lower than it was before) then you know the linkage is doing its job of putting the shift rod in the position where the motor should be in reverse. If this is true then the problem is not the linkage.

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: Need Dire Help with Shift Rod/linkage

lorin, I'll try that idea as well.

Here is what I've been doing....

1) I test the shift rod and make sure it's going into all gears. (this is with PH installed and LU hooked up)

2) Then I hook up the shift rod to the shift rod lever, which is the squareish bracket, and to the shift lever, which is the arm that goes through the manifold. I test again. At this point I can get it to go into all gears as well. Problem is if you look at the pic, there is a seam where the manifold meets the bottom case. I drew a thin yellow line and pointed to it with an arrow.

At this point, when it's adjusted per the book, the angle on the shift lever, which I outlined in blue, goes beyond the seam I mentioned. When it does this, it won't shift into reverse when I hook up the shift arm assembly (still no cables yet). All it does at this point is start to engage. Meening if I spin the prop, it kind of thunk, thunk, thunks, as it seems to want to catch but not quite catch.

It won't and can't go any further with the shift arm assembly hooked up, because the shift arm assembly hits the bolt on the case where the thin yellow line points. Thus preventing any further rear travel.

3) This is where logic tells me that if I can get the area with the blue line to point forward more, all would be good. To do this, I have to turn the shift rod clockwise to get it to appear to raise, which moves the shift arm assembly forward. About 4 turns like this and I can get it to go into all gears, but when I hook the cables up and move the remote control, it doesn't shift until the control is all the way forward or all the way back. Meaning half way forward, the prop still spins as though in neutral. Half the way back, the prop still spins as though in neutral.

The strange part is that after going all the way forward or back with the control and getting the prop to engage, it doesn't shift out of gear until I am at the neutral position on the remote control. Maybe I'm ok at this point, but it doesn't seem right, it seems as if the prop should engage sooner than it does. Maybe at this point, it's the cables not the linkage, but I haven't seen where.

I was told there is some movement in the remote control prior to shifting into gear, to allow the prop to stop spinning and RPM's to come down. Maybe that's further than I think it should be. Do I hook it up like this, go through all the sync and link and run the boat to see or does this not seem right either??

Here is the pic, remember this is prior to the rebuild with engine setting on a bench, but it gives a clear view of what I'm dealing with. I'll see if I can't snap some pics tonight of what I'm dealing with directly.

 

[funpilot]

Re: Need Dire Help with Shift Rod/linkage

Perhaps a dumb question, but is the shift arm (the piece with the fat yellow arrow and the blue right angle symbol) rotated right side up, i.e. 90 degrees out of line?

fp

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: Need Dire Help with Shift Rod/linkage

Not a dumb question in my mind. I had thought of that, but I don't see how it could hook up another direction. The pics above are prior to the rebuild when it all worked. Basically, at that point it had just been pulled off the rest of the motor.

I have pics below that show my current setup. See anything different? I have included pics of all 3 gear placements, but want to note that reverse isn't actually in reverse at that stage. It does sort of clunk to go there, but it's not engaged. If I hold it against the bolt with the arrow, it starts to give that thunk, thunk, thunk I mentioned earlier. Both forward and reverse seem to clunk/catch prior to being engaged. It's sort of like they are getting ready to drop into gear, just not there yet.

The pic of forward is actually engaged. It did go through the clunk/catch prior to engaging though. It's like the linkage has to move through 2 stages to be engaged. I only notice that when the linkage is hooked up to the shift rod. I never notice that with just the shift rod itself. So maybe it's a movement in the linkage that I feel.

Is it possible that when the shift rod came unthreaded (or felt like it did) from the shifter detent that the detent got moved? I've been told no, but I figure might as well ask again. What holds the shifter detent in position? i.e. can it get moved without taking the cover off the shift area?

 

[imported_lorin]

Re: Need Dire Help with Shift Rod/linkage

The detent is held in place by a spring pushing on a ball. The ball fits into a slot in the detent. To remove the detent you need to twist it so that the ball comes out of the slot-then you pull up on the detent to remove.
Another thing you might check is the shift lever (the block of aluminum) to make sure it doesn't have a crack that allow it to flex.
But if you can't find anything wrong with it or the rest of the linkage maybe it's time to think about the gearcase again.If you remove the gearcase and shift it by hand-by grabbing the shift rod and pushing or pulling-everything works ok-right? The shift rod needs to feel like it's going into each detent position. And then with it in gear you should turn the drive shaft with some vise grips and see that the prop turns the correct way without clunking or skipping. You need to turn the drive shaft with the vise grips and also have a hand on the prop. Your hand on the prop needs to keep tension on the prop to feel that the prop stays engaged and responds "strictly" to the turns of the drive shaft without any skipping or clunking. You can't just turn the drive shaft and look at the prop and see it turn and assume that everything is ok. Of course you need to do this in forward and reverse and make sure it spins freel in neutral. If there's any skipping of the prop as the drive shaft turns then it's not going into gear correctly and there'a a problem.

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: Need Dire Help with Shift Rod/linkage

lorin, I'll keep that in mind and if I don't figure it out, I'll check that out.

My concern was that the detent might have come loose. Doesn't sound like that if it's shifting.

I think for now I'll set the shift rod 3-4 turns up unless I can get back where I was with less. Trying to get it to shift without cables, then attach the cables and do a complete sync and link and see if that gets it. If not, then I'll go looking at the lower unit and/or take it to the shop.

I just don't see how/why something in that LU would be messed up, but if it's possible, it would happen to me!! Not being overtly negative, just truthful!!:/

At this point the $60 an hour shop charge sounds like a bargain!!