NEED ADVISE on 1987 merc 165 4cyl.

[krobbins]

I should have checked this site before buying my boat. I have a 1987 21ft. SeaRay cuddy (nice boat but apparent crappy engine). I took it out for first time since my winter purchase and it ran HOT after 10 minutes (250degrees).
I shut down and waited 45 minutes. Cranked and headed back to ramp. Got home and found oil to be milky. Question is where do i start, water pump seal, head gasket, camshaft seal??? Or do i change oil and sell this thing to someone else??? I know that would not be the right thing to do! Or do i find a different engine and do a swap? Alpha 1 outdrive is fine (i think).
Please if you tell me to find another engine help me figure which one would be the best reliable and easiest, cheapest price?

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: NEED ADVISE on 1987 merc 165 4cyl.

Howdy,

You know we have all said the same thing at one time or another! I should have checked this site before buying my FourWinns with the OMC 460 in it from my brother!!

If I had I would have told him "Thanks, but take that $1000 more from the other guy"!!


He didn't know either.



Now you have it and you're stuck with it. (unless you didn't pay much or it was free) You probably need to determine the exact problem. See if you can fix it but don't spend too much. Start looking for a suitable replacement. If you have the room, the 250 cu-in inline 6 is a great engine. Any of the V-6's are great. Your best bet is to find a donor boat. I bought my replacement engine/drive from Craigslist.

Stand by,

There'll be no shortage of ideas coming from a lot of people who have "been there, done that" and have the T-shirts and coffee cups to prove it!!

Cheers,


Rick

 

[Bondo]

Re: NEED ADVISE on 1987 merc 165 4cyl.

and sell this thing to someone else???

Ayuh,...........

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: NEED ADVISE on 1987 merc 165 4cyl.

I am going to assume you did not take the boat out and run it before you bought it?


I don't know if I'd just change the oil and sell it to someone else (unless you tell what's wrong with it).......you don't sound like that kind of guy....

If the rest of the boat is good (no rot in the floor, transom, etc) I think I'd just find another engine (not a 470) ans swap it out........


Here's a novel ideal......did you call the guy back and tell him that the boat has SERIOUS PROBLEMS that he didn't tell you about? He may just say CAVEAT EMPTOR or he may give you a little money back! You won't know unless you try.....

 

[krobbins]

Re: NEED ADVISE on 1987 merc 165 4cyl.

I found this motor on E-bay. Do you think it will fit? and is this a good motor. Or can i find a chevy 250 engine out of a old truck/car and if so what year.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1987...ine-motor_W0QQitemZ250238453135QQcmdZViewItem

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: NEED ADVISE on 1987 merc 165 4cyl.

You can make almost any motor fit where your 465 is now. But you will need a lot of parts and some ability to make front motor mounts. As I said before my dad put a 5.7 in place of one of these engines for a guy. Since the motor is an inline 4, even a V8 shouldn't be much if any longer. An inline 6 sounds attractive, and maybe it is the way to go, since you probably wouldn't need an an exhast Y-Pipe, like you will for any V motor you would put in there. The only problem with the inline 6 is that GM hasn't made them in years, and they aren't that much more, if any more powerful than that 4 cyl you have in there now.
As far as what to check with the milky oil, I'd do a compression and or leakdown test. That would identify if it's a headgastket issue, in theory. Also, pull the exhaust riser and see if it's getting water down in the xhaust manifold too. Don't want to have a cylinder sitting there with water in it.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: NEED ADVISE on 1987 merc 165 4cyl.

That V-6 might be a good replacement.

A couple of things are needed though...

1. It needs to be local. Don't buy something you have to pay shipping on (unless it's coming from someone reputable) I don't know if I would buy an engine from ebay unless it was "down the street'... otherwise, You might just be getting someones poorly winterized (or NOT winterized) mistake.

2. You'll want most of the hardware in the donor boat Like TW said... especially the Y-pipe, transom plate, bell housing, engine mounts, nuts, bolts, hoses, clamps etc...

3. Unless you are planning to completely rebuild the engine you buy you should probably hear it run first....or at the least be able to compression check it, drain the oil and have a look and maybe even pump it full of water to look for leaks...

Get as much as you can get your hands on. The more stuff you get from the donor boat the less you have scrounge... When I got mine I even took the complete wiring harness, gages and all the controls.


I had a lot of fun (if that's possible) swapping out the old OMC for the Mercruiser.

It changed my Four Winns from a piece of junk worth nothing, into a pretty nice boat that's worth a LOT more than comparable Liberators with older Mercruisers in them. and of course it doesn't even compare to any with the OMC stuff in them.


If you have to buy very much new stuff or pay anyone to do the job. It will become cost prohibitive very fast.....and then it won't be worth it.


Good luck,



Rick

 

[krobbins]

Re: NEED ADVISE on 1987 merc 165 4cyl.

I bought the boat from a boat broker in Ga. He said i could take it out but the lake was dried up for the most part. I doubt i would get anything out of them or the owner. Anyway the boat ran fine the first time i placed it in the water during the winter i took it up river for a 30 min trip and all was fine with temp. I checked oil after that trip and also after the several times i ran her in the backyard with muffs on and the oil was fine. Only after it ran hot this trip (250 dgs.) did i find the milky oil in the system. I had just replaced impeller and it would flow hot water out the exhaust ports only when i would hold muffs tight against inlet, but it would not even do that before i replaced impeller. I am hoping only problem is a head gasket and then fix the running hot problem. Any advice is very much appreciated.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: NEED ADVISE on 1987 merc 165 4cyl.

Kevin,

It appears that you are pretty much stuck with it. You may still be able to fix it if it's the cam seal problem someone else mentioned.

There's a wealth of info here from people who have had every problem imaginable with that engine.

I don't know where to send you for your specific problems with the "470" but stay tuned. You'll get a lot help here.

If it's easily repairable that'll be your best bet. You probably ought to sell the boat shortly after you fix it though. Then go looking for another one (preferably) without problem engines & drives!


Oh, You should go back and edit out your phone number... it's not good to post your email address or phone number on open forums like this....You'll get all sorts of stuff you don't want...



Good luck,


Rick

I bought the boat from a boat broker in Ga. He said i could take it out but the lake was dried up for the most part. I doubt i would get anything out of them or the owner. ////snip////You can call me with advice if it helps from typing too much.
Kevin

 

[krobbins]

Re: NEED ADVISE on 1987 merc 165 4cyl.

I talked to a guy that lives about 100 miles from me that says he has a 165hp straight 6 cylinder that is the chevy 250. It has the outdrive attached and the engine was rebuilt with about a 100 hours on it. He said i can pick it up with everything that comes with it (exhaust, risers, outdrive, motor mounts etc...) $ 800. Sounds good if this is a good engine (desirable one).

 

[Bondo]

Re: NEED ADVISE on 1987 merc 165 4cyl.

Ayuh,...... That's a Much More Desireable motor,......

You might be able to get most of the money back by selling the 470, Piece by piece on ebay.....

 

[krobbins]

Re: NEED ADVISE on 1987 merc 165 4cyl.

I have read on here about 2 types of inline 6 cyl gm 250. I6 and L6 or was that a typo?
Also the above mentioned motor has all the parts from motor to outdrive. Will it be much problem exchanging out?
Do you think it will be too tall for my floor cover to fit?

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: NEED ADVISE on 1987 merc 165 4cyl.

The extra lenth of an inline 6 will be your biggest issue. A V8 will fit there much easier and GM still makes them. They don't make that I6 anymore. I am not saying you can't get parts, but a V8 would be the way to go, in my inexpert opinion. But you have to do what you have to do.

 

[starsnstripers]

Re: NEED ADVISE on 1987 merc 165 4cyl.

That rebuilt L-6 with outdrive sounds like a good plan. If you have the room for the length you'll be good to go! They dont make em anymore but if you wanted a new engine you'd buy wwhatever you wanted huh? I look at the V engines as double trouble exhaust Y, Two heads, two manifolds, where as the l-6 you keep your exhaust tube one head and one manifold. More room to work on it and easy maint. Reliable and economical! Need any more said? p.s. There are still plenty of good rebuildable 250s around. I picked up a gm 292= 200hp I'm going to rebuild for next season. get the hp and torque of a V engine with an L-6. Good luck lets us know what works out.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: NEED ADVISE on 1987 merc 165 4cyl.

The 250 cu-in 6 is such a good engine that if you could get "everything" that might be a pretty good replacement! The expensive item for them is the exhaust manifold but they are available.

The good thing is if it is indeed a "good shape" engine and you can relocate the front engine mount (you may need to do a little fiber-glassing in that area to add a piece of hard wood for a front mount) That would be a pretty good replacement.


I had a 1966 Mark Twain with a 230cu-in (150 Mercruiser) I-6 that my dad bought new. The hr meter failed at 1600 hrs or so...in the mid 1980's..... I had it from 1997 to 2005....I never did anything to it except normal maintenance & replace the coupler.....even the coupler lasted 38 years!!!...... It had run 39 years when I sold it and my dad had never had the head off. Those GM I-6 engines seem to run for ever if you take normal care of them!


I wouldn't rule out a 165 I-6..... or any I-6 http://www.inliners.org/

 

[krobbins]

Re: NEED ADVISE on 1987 merc 165 4cyl.

I think i will purchase the I6 with the outdrive. What type of test should i perform to the motor and drive while it is at the shop out of boat of course!

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: NEED ADVISE on 1987 merc 165 4cyl.

I would probably want to do a compression check. and a cooling system pressure check.....That might be harder. try to get some sort of a guarantee on the engine (I.E.) if it has a cracked block(the big stuff) they find you another one etc... Look it over VERY close for cracks. try to find out which exhaust manifold it has on it and see if you can find one. (I think they can be had new for about $400-500) If manifold is cracked you should get the engine for much less.

You'll want to have a good look at the drive.....you might pull the prop and see if the shaft is bent..... I would want to drain it and look for water in the drive oil (if the drive oil is new and fresh......they may have replaced it. you won't know what it looked like before draining) Then you might want to pressure check the drive.

Cracked blocks in an I-6 don't usually cause water to get into the oil. (like cracks in the "valley" in a V-6/8) you have to look close for cracks.


These are just things that I would look for....I would probably think of more stuff if I saw it up close........someone else will have suggestions. For $800 I don't know if I would expect a "cream puff" ...... it is an obsolete engine so it won't command a really high price.

Try to find a Mercruiser service manual for it or talk them into allowing you to copy theirs.

 

[krobbins]

Re: NEED ADVISE on 1987 merc 165 4cyl.

Advise on how to erect an engine puller to pull my inboard out of boat high enough to clear!

 

[bhammer]

Re: NEED ADVISE on 1987 merc 165 4cyl.

Ayuh,...... That's a Much More Desireable motor,......

You might be able to get most of the money back by selling the 470, Piece by piece on ebay.....

Yes, he can easily get that back on ebay and may make a buck too. Start with the alternator stator, rotor and the voltage cooled regulator. If it has a 3" heat exchanger, you won't get much but the 4" will get a few bucks. If the alternator upgradfe has been done, take it off and sell it as well.

Then, there are shops that will buy the short or long block for a decent price. If you have done the speedie fix to the cam, then I would short it and sell the head on ebay if the valves are in good shape.

If you got that aluminum block that hot, the water in the oil is probably much more serious than a head gasket.

Head over to the 470 forum at http://www.breezeworks.net/. This is where many people will give great advice.