Need Advice Please!!!!

[gabriel]

I'm a young family man with three kids. I bought My first boat one year ago. Its a 1990 bayliner capri with a 90HP Force OB. The OB was the worst because it was really unpredictible.
So I decied to buy a used 1989 Nissan OB 90HP which worked fine first three times I drove
it. One day I decided to put in a fuel conditioner, then another time a better one, but everytime we used it we never finished the gas so I kept pouring more on top of the old gas. It wasn't more then a month that I used the boat all they had to do is change spark plug wires. I paid 90 bucks for that. Oh and the compression test was 130, 135, 130. Now it wont stay on. I think they messed with my carb adjustment because it drove smooth until I got it back. I went somewhere else and they told me they could tell me everything about my engine. They said it was perfect now, but it dosen't hold a charge. I changed out ac rec, spark plugs, and water empeller and it started up the first time rough then died and wont start again. I know if it wont take to much to fix it, but the old lady want's to sell it and I just couldn't do that to anybody after how sad it made me. I love boating since my first day on the water. Does anyone know someone in so cal either in the LA or OC area that could help me? Or should I sell it and go through the whole process again I just want my engine fixed honestly.

 

[ddennis]

Re: Need Advice Please!!!!

Gabriel, please edit your post to include some punctuation! It is IMPOSSIBLE to read!!!

 

[rogerwa]

Re: Need Advice Please!!!!

Ok, lots of open questions here..

First, you do know that this has oil injection and does not require premix. right. I could see where you could have these types of problems if using pre-mix and injection

Second, if your compression is good, which it is, this should be fixable relatively easily.

I would definitely use the NGK plugs that are the recommended plugs. I think i put champion in mine and they work distictly different.

It also sounds like you need a carb cleaning and adjustment.

Can you keep it running if you start it with the idle level at something other than idle. Meaning there is a fast idle that you will need to use when cold.

If I had to bet, I would bet that you have a clogged low speed circuit and mis-adjusted mixture screws.

does this run out of the water on muffs? If it does and it kills in the water, you need to make some adjustments to the idle speed and mixture adjustment when it is on the water.

I don't think you should punt on this as I think it is fixable, base on the assumptions above, for relativley low effort.

 

[gabriel]

Re: Need Advice Please!!!!

Sorry Dennis.

I don't mix But when I had my Force I had a full tank of 5 to 1 but ran it out with the nissan. That's why I put in those conditioners.

Yes, I can keep it running.

If I had to bet, I would bet that you have a clogged low speed circuit and mis-adjusted mixture screws.

I belive you may be right.

It dose run on mufffs.

I don't know where those screws are on the carborator. Can you send me a picture?

Thank you Gentlemen for all your help it means alot to me and my family.

 

[gss036]

Re: Need Advice Please!!!!

Add Seafoam or Chevron Techron to the gas at least twice the recommend rate or more, you will have a very rich mixture and if that doesn't help, it is time for the carbs to come off for a good rebuild/cleaning.

 

[gabriel]

Re: Need Advice Please!!!!

What is that sea foam?

I belive I used it for my 90HP OB Force I spary it in where the spark plugs go and in the carbs. When it starts it smokes alot right?

I have that cover over the carbs I'll probally have to take that off but will need a gasket so I could put it back together.

 

[rogerwa]

Re: Need Advice Please!!!!

So you ran the remainder of the pre-mix through it?? Is it after that point that you started having problems?? Did you change plugs after that with the specified NGK plugs??

Does it idle fine on muffs and then just die when in the water? I had this problem with mine as it was adjusted out of the water and when put in the water the back pressure caused it not to run well.

The idle adjustment screw is on the top of the carb bank on the left side as you face the carbs. You will notice the linkages that bind the butterflies of the three carbs together. At the very top is an adjustment screw that will adjust the resting place of the linkages. Turning this to the right should increase your idle RPM. I would not suggest this as a fix, you may be able to adjust this to the point it will run. then you can adjust the mixture screws and then readjust the idle to the specified RPM.

There a sequence to this that will require a manual. I would highly suggest this manual. If you just dink with it you may find yourself in a worse position.

In any case a good teardown and cleaning would be a good thing to do.. You just have to decide if you're up to it or not..

A manual and the carb parts would run you about $120-$150.. The manual is available online for $30 (I think) and the carb rebuild parts are ~$110 (Really expensive for what you get, but that is a downside to it being a Nissan)

 

[gabriel]

Re: Need Advice Please!!!!

Yes.

Way before that didn't seem to be the problem. I just flet in order for you guys to help me you needed to know everything.

Yes, I did change the plugs after. I have chaged the plugs about five times in a year. The most recent ones on the top cyclinder the gap was pushed closed I belive it was because they where the wrong size, right?

Can you tell me which ones you use for yours?

It works the same with or without muffs.

I'm diffinetly up to it. With somebody's guidance like yourself, if I had to ask a question.

What about useing that sea foam as the other gentlemen had mentioned?

Thank you so much for taking time out of your life to help my family it means the world to us.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Need Advice Please!!!!

I'm hesitant to give you any technical help with this engine because I 'm not convinced that you won't do damage to the engine while trying to repair it. I would be happy to review your written service orders from where you took it in to have it repaired. You can fax them to 813-931-3663. Once I see those I will be happy to point you in the right direction to get it fixed...If it is cost effective to do so.

 

[gabriel]

Re: Need Advice Please!!!!

I don't have them any more.

Are you Trying to say something? I can take the truth let me have it please.
(no disrespect)

my wife dose all the fileing and it seems all to go in the trash as she's cleaning.

Why would you think that I wasn't giving you the right info?

I've serviced my own enginge all through out my life for cars.

I also work as a implementation service engineer. I know that's not a OB mech but I am pretty good with tools if the wright person is guideing me.

I can give you the names of the shops that I took them to.

 

[rogerwa]

Re: Need Advice Please!!!!

Get the service manual before you do anything.. you need to learn a little about your outboard.

Here is a link to an owners manual. It should have the correct plugs listed in it as well as some other specs.

URLhttp://www.nissanmarine.com/tech_talk/pdf_files/Nis60C_70C_90A_120A2_140A2.pdf

I'm with TG.. You need a little education before you dig in.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Need Advice Please!!!!

There is an ebb and flow in outboard troubleshooting. I have to know what exactly has been done in order to tell you where to look. You say you have taken it in to two different dealers here...But, in your PM you said you had taken it in to all six dealers that I gave you the names of and you don't have your service records? Frankly, I'm just concerned that you are going to throw parts at the engine, like you already have, without determining what system(s) on the engine are causing the problem(s). Tech's go to school for years to learn how to repair outboards. I'll be happy to help you, but...We have to have a diagnosis of what the problem IS before we can tell you what to fix.

 

[gabriel]

Re: Need Advice Please!!!!

You ripped my heart out Roger but I understand sir thank you for your advice.

Guru, You sound like everybody I've been dealing with out here. I would rather be the better person on what I've already paided for and had done.

One, I grew up not being a snitch I don't think that's going to work.

I've tried to look for an OB school or class out here already, class is about $10,000 there is a very good course at Cypress college for one semester, but it's dosen't work with my job unforturnately I'm the only one that work's and my wife is a home maker.

But I will take your advice and buy the book for my OB, I had one for my Force but it didn't seem to be any help. I will check that link you gave me Roger and get it online.

I didn't want to open that kind of door gentlemen. I'm sorry.

I still apreciate all of your time deeply.

I really do feel in my heart that it's the carb cleaning and adjustment.

Guru, if you have one of those shop's out of the six that you know have the best rep I will take it there and follow up with you. I hope you agree sir.

 

[gabriel]

Re: Need Advice Please!!!!

I just looked at that OB manual I've already got that one.

 

[rogerwa]

Re: Need Advice Please!!!!

The manual I pointed you to is just an owners manual. You need a shop manual.

Unlike TG and some of these other guys, I am not an expert. I am a resourceful amatuer who has never used a marine mechanic and has serviced all his own stuff. Which includes a handful of outboards and an I/O. I do all my research befoe digging in and judge whether I can handle the job or not. if not, I will find another way. So far I have been able to do everything myself. I may not get it right the first time, but overall I hve saved tons over taking it in and have never been stranded or had a problem that left me high and dry.

With that being said, all I am saying is to get as much education as you can before you try anything. It is far cheaper than to shotgun it and waste money on parts or to wreck something that could be avoided.

I would hate to provide a tutorial on linking and syncing your outboard, when you are not informed enough to handle it and you could potentially damage your motor. Besides the tuning of the carbs can be more art than science. Assuming carbs ae your problem.

TG's homepage listed in his profile has a bunch of stuff for your outboard including parts and manuals. He is just professional enough not to sell on this forum.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Need Advice Please!!!!

for basic powerhead testing its imperative to have a shop service manual, even though most japanese manuals leave a bit to be desired.
a peak reading multi meter or a DVM with a DVA adapter is mandatory, the DVA adapter can be had at CDI and the meter at radio shack, mine is similar to the fluke in functions but was about 40 dollars.
a compression tester and a vacum guage is mandatory.

your issue isnt from the old premixed fuel
its from something else.
I dont work on Tohatsu engines much anymore but luckily there are only so many ways to build them.
first test compression, if thats good then test spark. do a forum search on a home made spark tester.
most older japanese manuals give only resistance readings for older outboard electricals.
while resistance readings are ok I usually ask for loaded Voltage outputs.
loaded means the components are still in the circuit.
if a components output voltage is low then dissconnect the load and retest.

the carbs are fairly easy to rebuild on that engine and wont require much in the way of special tooling.
just use decent quality screw drivers that correctly fit the jets when removing them.
I usually reccomend rebuilding or replacing the fuel pump at 3 year intravels.

best thing is to forget anything you thought you knew about automotive work.
this aint a 5.7 chevy.
two stroke engines last years and years with proper care, however they dont tolerate lean air fuel mixtures nor overheats.
sometimes it only takes one time.
so post the compression readings of today,yesterdays are irrelevant, test the spark and lets get on with it

 

[gabriel]

Re: Need Advice Please!!!!

Thank You Gentlemen

I will Update you When I put all you have taut me together.

 

[gabriel]

Re: Need Advice Please!!!!

Long time Gentlemen,

The OB is working. It ended up being the oil adjustment I figured it out myself. It looks like Min Mar Boat shop had drasticly changed just that setting, as soon as I macthed it up to the line it turned on and has been runing like a rock.

I also wanted to say that I took it to other Nissan dealers and they said there was nothing wrong with it, but they all wanted more money to do a full tune up.

My advice to all rookie OB owners is get the book like the Guru say's read it like a book at least three times and you will find out how easy it is. Are boat is a family member once again