Navionics in Canal Erie

[Wave34]

Hello,
I'm already planning my next summer vacation trip which is starting in Lake Ontario entering the Erie canal at Oswego and doing the whole canal to Niagara River and ending at Niagara Falls.

When doing 'autoroute', Navionics forces me to pass by Lake Ontario.
If I create waypoints along the canal to force this route, at a certain point (locks) Navionics says the route is impossible.

I don't understand why, because many people have done that route before.

Here are some coordinates if someone wants to try it.

Start point at Oswego: 43.459418, -76.510696
Last point Navionics accepts to trace a route: 43.061618, -77.017587
Then, the water changes from white to blue and no possibility to create a waypoint.
Desired End point: 43.022563, -78.881178

My draft is 3.0' but even if I try with 1' it doesn't work.

This is the Navionics website showing the problematic area.

https://webapp.navionics.com/#boating@13&key=mxyeGltauM


Thanks.

 

[mr 88]

If you have any questions about the Erie Canal and its operating hours or shut downs I would google NY Erie Canal and check out there official site , That will have all the details you need. You should not have any issues with draft or bridge clearance based on the picture of your boat in the signature. I have not read about any closures during the operating season , it's a long ride with the 5-10 mph and no wake zones. The minimum depth of the canal is something like 16 ' the whole length . There is not a section where it suddenly goes to less than 10' unless it's closed for repairs. That would entail closing down at least two locks to isolate the repair area. I would rely on NYs Canal web site for accurate info and save navionics for the big water.....BTW I hope when you write ending at Niagara Falls your not planning on jumping it or checking out for good !!! You can get to about 2 miles above the Falls before the heart starts to race and the reefs start showing up.

 

[GA_Boater]

Don't turn into these guys - http://www.niagarafrontier.com/scow.html

 

[mr 88]

The hours of the lock operations are confusing as well along with some being stupid and a waste of taxpayers dollars. Example , your entering at Oswego , the first lock is operated by the Feds and closes at 9 pm, The second lock , 200 yards upstream is run by the State and closes at 5 pm. Had the same situation in Albany . What good is it paying a Lockmaster to work until 9 at a dead end for boaters ? Better off not even entering the lock than getting stuck overnight tied off under a loud busy bridge as is the case in Oswego. Basically just count on the 7 or 8 am to 5 pm operating hours .

 

[Wave34]

If you have any questions about the Erie Canal and its operating hours or shut downs I would google NY Erie Canal and check out there official site , That will have all the details you need. You should not have any issues with draft or bridge clearance based on the picture of your boat in the signature. I have not read about any closures during the operating season , it's a long ride with the 5-10 mph and no wake zones. The minimum depth of the canal is something like 16 ' the whole length . There is not a section where it suddenly goes to less than 10' unless it's closed for repairs. That would entail closing down at least two locks to isolate the repair area. I would rely on NYs Canal web site for accurate info and save navionics for the big water.....BTW I hope when you write ending at Niagara Falls your not planning on jumping it or checking out for good !!! You can get to about 2 miles above the Falls before the heart starts to race and the reefs start showing up.

Thanks, I will check with the Erie Canal website.

We have a 2 weeks vacation. We plan launching the boats at Picton, then cross Lake Ontario to Oswego (may have to wait for a nice weather window)
.
We are not planning to jump the falls ;-) but I saw some marinas just before. We plan to stay there 1 or 2 days, and go by taxi to a boat tour to visit the falls and go back.
If we are short on time, may be cut in the middle directly to Lake Ontario, if weather is good.

Do you think 2 weeks is enough with the 5-10 mph sections?

 

[Wave34]

Don't turn into these guys - http://www.niagarafrontier.com/scow.html

My boat is a single engine, I hope that it won't die at the wrong place :-(

 

[Wave34]

The hours of the lock operations are confusing as well along with some being stupid and a waste of taxpayers dollars. Example , your entering at Oswego , the first lock is operated by the Feds and closes at 9 pm, The second lock , 200 yards upstream is run by the State and closes at 5 pm. Had the same situation in Albany . What good is it paying a Lockmaster to work until 9 at a dead end for boaters ? Better off not even entering the lock than getting stuck overnight tied off under a loud busy bridge as is the case in Oswego. Basically just count on the 7 or 8 am to 5 pm operating hours .

Ok thanks,
I will forget the late hours to make sure.
I will make a list of the distances and number of locks as suggested by mr 88.

 

[Old Ironmaker]

Erie Barge Canal. I spent many hours on and in that canal before I moved back to Canada. That Lake Ontario crossing is your biggest challenge until you see the "WELCOME TO CANADA" sign at the bottom of the Falls. I don't know if I could take the NO WAKE speed all the way from Oswego to the lake. No I couldn't. Enjoy and please watch that weather before you cross a Great Lake in that little boat. Little as in very small for an angry Lake O. More than a few times we have gotten surprised in the eastern end of Lake Ontario in The Bay of Quinte fishing, and that's in a bay, a big bay but a bay. If you know Picton you know the BOQ. Actually in Picton Bay once in front of the cement plant trolling for Walleye in December, young idioto's. Kissed the ground type of weather. The Great Lakes have a tendency to make the weather predictors look stupid without warning. Make the shortest crossing available and always have a close port for a storm. 5 miles can be 4 miles too many in a Great Lakes storm. It isn't called an inland sea for nothing. Good to see you planning early. Enjoy the trip.

edit: If you guys enjoy a good roast beef sangwidge you must get a slip for the night in North Tonawanda or Tonawanda and ask directions for "Swistons" in Tonawanda. I have been lucky enough to travel the World and it's the besr roast beef sandwich I have ever had. That's all they sell besides beer. A short walk from the canal over the bridge in NT. The Tonawanda's are at the mouth of the river.

I just read that shipwrecked barge stranded above The Horseshoe Falls moved a few hundred feet this year since it's been there for 100 years or something.

 

[mr 88]

I would figure on a solid 3 days from Oswego if you start at opening time of locks , break the speed limit where it is wide open and no ,docks, marina's or kayakers . There are no water cops on the canal , but people with nothing better to do have a "hotline" number to the closest lock you are traveling to and will call and complain . The Lockmaster will mention it to you but has no authority other than that and is just covering his ass by telling you in case he is questioned about it. Don't ask me how I kinow ,hehe , Probably cut 6 hours out of the trip by goosing it a bit in those sections when I went from where it starts in Albany and exited at Oswego recently.. Navionics will come in handy when you cross Lake Onedia as there is skinny water in the middle of it. You might check and see if you can get to Lake O at the Rochester intersection with the Genesee River for your return trip. If O is not angry you could cut 2 days off the trip back by scooting out there.

 

[briangcc]

If you happen to get stuck around the Flight of Five in Lockport NY hit me up. I'm blocks away.

Other food should you be interested in Tonawanda is either Smoke on the Water or Dockside Bar & Grill - both accessible by water and have docking available.


I'll second/third/whatnot the advice on Lake Ontario - watch the weather really closely as she can turn into a nasty SOB.

 

[Old Ironmaker]

If you happen to get stuck around the Flight of Five in Lockport NY hit me up. I'm blocks away.

Other food should you be interested in Tonawanda is either Smoke on the Water or Dockside Bar & Grill - both accessible by water and have docking available.


I'll second/third/whatnot the advice on Lake Ontario - watch the weather really closely as she can turn into a nasty SOB.

I'm heading to NT this Friday actually for lunch with my Uncle and his wife, my Aunt I guess. I'll have to check out 1 of those 2 restaurants in Tonawanda. You can not beat the food in The Greater Buffalo area. Much more than just Wings. My cousin had a joint in Lockport, Po Boys, they are closed and that's a good thing. Thanks.

 

[mr 88]

Upon further review you cannot get to O on the Genesee River. So it's a U turn when your done. Or if your feeling real adventurous head 8 miles up the Niagara , stop by Buffalo ,then take a 15 mile trip to the Welland Canal which will take you to O. Two major issues with that , Lake conditions on both O and Erie and the erractic travel time on the Welland. They set you up with either a group of pleasure boats or a Freighter. You may wait from1 to 8 hours before your assigned and once you enter the first lock you don't stop until your at the other end. So if they put you in at 10pm your traveling all night as I believe the Welland is 24/7 during the peak shipping season...
Swiston's does have great Beef on Weck and is located a few hundred yards up Ellicott Creek ,which enters the Erie Canal about a 1/3 of a mile from where the Canal ends at , [ technically the Little River ] as the Niagara is just on the other side of the Island where you terminate. No problem with water depth on the Creek for a few miles or so.

 

[JimS123]

My first boatride up the canal was in 1954 and I have traversed it every year since. So, I consider myself an expert. PM me if info is needed.

I second the beef at Swistons, but don't try to navigate there. Your Chap won't make it under the second bridge. Tie up at the Gateway Harbor and walk south the 2 blocks. Better yet, walk north only 1 block to Canalside and have a gourmet dinner.

My college graduation gift to myself was a trip from Tonawanda to Syracuse and back. It took 2 days for the forward part, and we made it back in only 1 day. We shortened the trip by goosing it in the sections that were uninhabited. Some of the bridges are lift bridges that are only 4 feet off the water and operated by an attendant. Unfortunately, coming around the last bend before the last bridge, the attendant saw me speeding and refused to raise the bridge. That added another day to the trip. Sooooo, be careful where you speed......LOL.

Lake Ontario can be nasty at times, plus if it gets windy the lake may "turn over" and the water temp may go down drastically. Then, you can expect pea soup fog and it can come up without warning. When you traverse the lake, wait for good weather and go as fast as you can.

The Welland Canal may not be a practical option. Commercial traffic takes precedence and there is a minimum size limit. Check beforehand to see if you qualify. (I know I don't)

No water cops up to Lockport, NY, but between there and the Niagara River there are 6 police agencies plus the USCG that monitor the canal. They usually go 2.5 MPH in the 6 mph zone. Don't pass them.....LOL. Where there are no water cops the local police in cars monitor the water.

True, the Genesee River is not connected, but the Oswego Canal is. But then again my memory ain't what it used to be. Contact the Erie Canal authority as others have said.

Back in the day I had a map listing every livery, gas station and bridge for the entire canal with mileage between each. It worked well for me until the last stop, where the station was out of business. It took us hours of walking into town with portable tanks to find an open gas station.

Maybe plan on more than 2 weeks. Any additional time needed will be a joy. The area is like no other. I know people that can't stand the slow speed. But to us that's the best part of the ride. Just be ready to call the boss and tell him you got the flu and won't be in today.

Ahh, the good old days. I love being retired, yet I long for the adventures of my youth...

 

[Old Ironmaker]

You guys that did the canal to the Niagara passed 2 blocks from where I spent 99% of the time growing up on Payne Ave. until it was time for Kindergarten and almost every summer and weekends when I started driving to stay with my Nani. The boy's and I used it as home base bar hopping . We filled the fridge for a few weeks for her. The Tonawanda's don't get much ink and it's kinda cool to know a few here know it, including Beef on Kimoweck. I've never found a Wick bun anywhere outside of Buffalo and area. Swiston's is a lunch spot not an evening dinner stop. The place hasn't changed 1 bit since I've been going there and that has to be 50 years. My record is whacking out 4 at one sitting. Free all you can eat Popcorn too.

 

[JimS123]

You guys that did the canal to the Niagara passed 2 blocks from where I spent 99% of the time growing up on Payne Ave. until it was time for Kindergarten and almost every summer and weekends when I started driving to stay with my Nani. The boy's and I used it as home base bar hopping . We filled the fridge for a few weeks for her. The Tonawanda's don't get much ink and it's kinda cool to know a few here know it, including Beef on Kimoweck. I've never found a Wick bun anywhere outside of Buffalo and area. Swiston's is a lunch spot not an evening dinner stop. The place hasn't changed 1 bit since I've been going there and that has to be 50 years. My record is whacking out 4 at one sitting. Free all you can eat Popcorn too.

Payne starts at Sweeney Street and that's where I grew up in the 1950's. As a pre-teen I camped on the bank of the Canal.

Payne is famous for its bars. Its only a couple miles long but back in the day it sported 26 of them. Dad didn't believe me so one day we drove the length and counted them.

"Beef on Weck" is a Buffalo German tradition. A Kimmelweck is a German roll that means hard roll topped with caraway seeds. They are on it as well. That's why you don't find them elsewhere, the seeds are usually omitted.

Tonawanda is largely the same as it was years ago. North Tonawanda is where things are happening. My cousin (the NT City Engineer) just completed a full upgrade of the dockage, including power and water hookups. Waterfront concerts are held every week in the Summer. An awesome restaurant is right on the dock, and a gourmet restaurant is right across the street in the old canal powerhouse. The first 2 blocks of the main street (Webster Street) in lined with restaurants, craft breweries and shops. The Riviera Theatre is a destination in its own right. The Mighty Wurlitzer Pipe Organ is fully restored and is one of only a handfull left in the world.

Our Sundays may be spend on the Niagara or Lake Erie. But when it comes to Dinner time, you'll find us docked at Gateway Harbor. If we're too tired to walk to a restaurant, local bars and pizza joints will deliver to your boat.

Why are we talking about this now? I see snow in my back yard and the boats are winterized....

(maybe I'll go to Swistons for lunch)

 

[Old Ironmaker]

Payne starts at Sweeney Street and that's where I grew up in the 1950's. As a pre-teen I camped on the bank of the Canal.

Payne is famous for its bars. Its only a couple miles long but back in the day it sported 26 of them. Dad didn't believe me so one day we drove the length and counted them.

"Beef on Weck" is a Buffalo German tradition. A Kimmelweck is a German roll that means hard roll topped with caraway seeds. They are on it as well. That's why you don't find them elsewhere, the seeds are usually omitted.

Tonawanda is largely the same as it was years ago. North Tonawanda is where things are happening. My cousin (the NT City Engineer) just completed a full upgrade of the dockage, including power and water hookups. Waterfront concerts are held every week in the Summer. An awesome restaurant is right on the dock, and a gourmet restaurant is right across the street in the old canal powerhouse. The first 2 blocks of the main street (Webster Street) in lined with restaurants, craft breweries and shops. The Riviera Theatre is a destination in its own right. The Mighty Wurlitzer Pipe Organ is fully restored and is one of only a handfull left in the world.

Our Sundays may be spend on the Niagara or Lake Erie. But when it comes to Dinner time, you'll find us docked at Gateway Harbor. If we're too tired to walk to a restaurant, local bars and pizza joints will deliver to your boat.

Why are we talking about this now? I see snow in my back yard and the boats are winterized....

(maybe I'll go to Swistons for lunch)

Small world JIm. I think you are confusing Payne Ave. with the bars on Oliver St.or mis typed Once the most bars on any 1 street in the World according to The guiness Book of World Records way back. . I've bar hopped some of it, no one could do it all. My cousin just retired from his job in Wurlitzer Park business complex. My Great Grandfather worked at the place they made Carousels. We hid under the seats at the Rivera also known as the Riviera Theatre to see the 2nd showing of Jason and the Argonauts for example. I popped into the Rivera a few years ago, WOW what a job they did restoring it. Mom grew up at 120 Payne Ave. next door to the Hamp's. That's where I lived 90% of the time until I was 5 in 59, you might be a few years older than me and probably went to school with my Uncle Mickey. Small World for sure Jim. Family names are Miano and Demart. Thanks for the memories.

I've brought my boat down there for Canalfest a few times, great times.

 

[JimS123]

It's this old age thing. I had Oliver in my mind's eye but I was typing Payne.

The corner of Payne and Sweeney was the Richfield Gas Station where my Grandpa used to buy the white gas for our Mark 10. Right next door was the Richardson Boat factory.

Our church and the best sub shop in the world are located on Payne.

 

[Wave34]

Thank you everybody for the help and tips.

@Old Ironmaker;; I don't know Picton, it is a place that a friend suggested me to launch the boat (will be travelling from Montreal trailering our boats).
Navionics says 2h00 from Picton to Oswego at 30mph. Yes we will check carefully the weather before crossing.
Thanks for the suggestion on the sandwich ("Swistons" in Tonawanda), I will try to try it for sure.


@mr 88;; Thanks for the estimate. 3 days if not loosing time. We should be ok then. Even if we do it in 4 days, another 4 days to come back (visit some towns), plus maybe 2 days at Niagara Falls and 2 days travelling on the road. Sounds feasible if everything goes well
We won't cross Lake Onedia, but going north to Oswego. We respect people and marinas and no wake zones, but if some places are lost in nowhere land it would be nice to go faster, because at 7mph I don't know if I will be able to do the whole trip LOL.
If the weather is nice we may cut in Lake Ontarion, but it will be a long run, hoping the weather remains calm.


@briangcc;; Thank you sir for your offer of helping in case of problems. We all wish everything goes well, but we never know what can happen far from home, and having someone sharing the same passion that can help is always welcome.
I will take note of your suggestions for the food also. I prefer to go to a place suggested by someone that already tried it than trying anything.


@JimS123;; Thanks for the offer, if I have a specific questions I will contact you.
About the bridge, my arches can be unpinned but it's a bit of trouble, so I won't try the 2nd bridge.
Unfortunately we have to make the whole trip in 14 days. My friend has a business and can close only 2 weeks, so I think it is better to go as fast as possible to Niagara Falls, then coming back, if we have spare time, we can go visit some cities, villages etc.

 

[JimS123]

Just a couple of suggestions / clarifications...

* I don't know Canadian launch facilities, but I'll offer Kingston as an alternate to Picton. The trip across the lake may be slightly longer, but the highway travel with your trailer will be a lot shorter, if that matters.

* Oneida Lake isn't an issue since the Oswego canal is closer to Western NY, so you won't need to go there unless you want to visit there on your way home.

* Re. the second bridge to Swistons, the part of the creek between the that and the first bridge has no dockage, so you better stay in the Erie Canal.

* You can't really "GO" to Niagara falls. Best to dock in Tonawanda / North Tonawanda and stay a few days, utilizing a Taxi or tour company. Once you travel down river and see the mist rising from the falls you won't find any dockage any more.

* The speed limit on the Erie Canal is 10 mph in open areas, and 5 mph in cities and no-wake zones. The last part of the western section (about 12 miles or so) is heavily patrolled.

 

[Wave34]

Just a couple of suggestions / clarifications...

* I don't know Canadian launch facilities, but I'll offer Kingston as an alternate to Picton. The trip across the lake may be slightly longer, but the highway travel with your trailer will be a lot shorter, if that matters.
I see. We will take a look. Near Picton is Sandbank, we wanted to go see the beach. If we change our mind, yes Kingston looks like a better option.

* Oneida Lake isn't an issue since the Oswego canal is closer to Western NY, so you won't need to go there unless you want to visit there on your way home.

* Re. the second bridge to Swistons, the part of the creek between the that and the first bridge has no dockage, so you better stay in the Erie Canal.

* You can't really "GO" to Niagara falls. Best to dock in Tonawanda / North Tonawanda and stay a few days, utilizing a Taxi or tour company. Once you travel down river and see the mist rising from the falls you won't find any dockage any more.
You're right, must be my bad english. Like you said, we plan to stop in a marina and take a taxi for a boat tour at the falls. I don't want to see the mist from inside my boat. LOL.

* The speed limit on the Erie Canal is 10 mph in open areas, and 5 mph in cities and no-wake zones. The last part of the western section (about 12 miles or so) is heavily patrolled.

My boat doesn't get on plane at 10 mph, it just pushes more water and burn more gas, LOL.
Unless I can't control my right arm and inadvertently push a bit more on the throttle...

.
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