Motor blown because of VRO

[Cortes165]

I just got a call from my engine builder that my Evin 100 is shot. Ran with out oil. This engine was rebuilt only 20 hrs ago. It ran fine with the premix and I watched the oil tank for consumption. After running straight fuel is where the problems started. Obviuosly not enough oil. No alarms ever sounded, even though I did the system check to verify things were working. At the rebuild time the pump was checked and there was no need to replace. Now the fight begins if it's covered under warranty. The shop says it's not. Regardless of what happens, there will never be a VRO pump on anything I own. The flow rates were checked, alarms checked and still the pump failed. I really like the idea of the auto oil but after following all the rules, it still is not reliable. It's a pain in the ars premixing but at least you know what's happening with the fuel.

 

[Terry H]

Re: Motor blown because of VRO

Cortes I suspect that the VRO is ok. I would drop by the shop unannounced and take the vro with you and have it checked by an independent. Don't tell the shop what you want it for, they will suspect, of course. That's going to be the only way to know for sure. If they are blowing smoke you will likely have some recourse...just a thought

 

[Cortes165]

Re: Motor blown because of VRO

Yes good plan. I was already going over tonight to verify the alarm system. If it tests out ok, just like it did at home, would also help my case.

 

[Cortes165]

Re: Motor blown because of VRO

What can i do to check the pump out??? If it worked 20 hours ago why would it quit now?? Can the pump be "marginal" or is it one of those things that either works or not?

 

[ob]

Re: Motor blown because of VRO

You say during the 50:1 trial run ,you watched the oil tank for consumption.What were your findings??Did it use oil or not?If not ,the engine should have remained on premix.If so,what was the volume used in ratio to the fuel consumed?

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Motor blown because of VRO

why would you rebuild a motor and not install a new oil pump. sounds like false economy. replace the pump every 6 years and odds are it will never fail. if its VRO I wont rebuild it with any warrenty unless a new pump is installed.most failures are NOT VRO but a bad filter or trash in the system. <br /> to many mo-chanics blame the VRO and cant even tell you how to test the no oil alarms. the first few years VRO had some issues but they were all solved by about 1988. usually lack of lubrication will turn the rods and crank surfaces blue. if the bearings show no sign of lubrication failure I would be hesitant to blame the VRO. my 120 is VRO with wally world oil,it runs 20 to 30 hours per week and has since I built it in 1995. if they reused the old oil pump and did not advise you to replace the pump then I would think its their problem. myself if you had reused the old pump against my advice you would have signed the work order that would clearly state your warrenty in an oil related failure.<br /> good luck and keep posting

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Motor blown because of VRO

Think about it, if you ran an outboard without oil, what would the insides look like?<br /><br />All cylinders would be deeply scored and all the pistons and rings would be severely damaged and possibly seized to the cylinder walls. Every rod bearing and main bearing and wrist pin bearing would be "blued" from the frictional heat and most likely the rollers would be flattened from the pounding. The heat would also blue the bearing surfaces of every rod and the wristpins would also be blue and severely damaged. Of course the crankshaft would be totaled with all the main bearing surfaces blued from lack of oil, and each rod bearing surface would be damaged. All in all, there would not be any remaining internal parts that could be re-used, the whole motor would be trash.<br /><br />Now if the dealer says that only a few cylinders were damaged, then IT WAS NOT A VRO PUMP FAILURE!!!<br /><br />Read the FAQ section here in this forum, Part F., that tells about the VRO and why it is blamed for failures that are not its fault. Then you might print it out and give it to your "mechanic" to study.

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: Motor blown because of VRO

The service manual goes into how to check oil usage by using a low reading pressure guage, and a lenght of clear plastic tubing (1/4" ID) tie strapped to a 12" ruler. The guage will give a jump every time the pump pulses. The oil in the clear tube should drop 1" every four to six pulses. Keep in mind you are running on pre-mix here. The clear hose is joined to the oil inlet nipple, and the clear tube filled with oil. Here is a nother thing you may want to check. If you have a boat with the oil tank out of sight, such as in a transom well, and the boat was out in heavy rain uncovered, that oil box will show full, or nearly so, because it has possibly been flooded , and has several inch's of water on the bottom. I have run across this twice. When you say your engine is shot, do you mean through out the whole engine, ( crank, rod's, bearing's, piston's) as a total oil failure would cause? You said you tested the engine warning system, the repair shop should have done that.

 

[Cortes165]

Re: Motor blown because of VRO

Seahorse, I have read the FAQ several times to try to understand how this system worked. You make a good point. It is easy to blame the oiling system. So far the shop has removed the heads and revealed the cylinder walls are scuffed up (maybe not scarred). At this point they do not know how much damage if any is done to the bottom end. The engine was still running but 2 cylinders went down to 100psi comp. The engine quit while cruising at 4500rpm. I then idled in to shore. There were no alarms at this time. I have also tested the alarm via the tan wire on the head and it does activate the alarm.<br />And yes the oil system was tested as per the work order and passed. <br />If the crank does show an oiling problem can i still get the oil pump tested even though it is not on the engine???

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Motor blown because of VRO

Cortes165,<br /><br />The later service manuals show how to test the pump and its "chambers" for integrity by using a vacuum tester. Then there is the "no oil alarm" test and the oil volume test (posted by R. Johnson).<br /><br />Light scuffing of the pistons usually means they got hot. Did the rebuilders forget to replace the 4 rubber water deflectors that are inserted in the cylinder and crankcase assembly? Did you get a new water pump kit and what part number? Did you get new thermostats when it was rebuilt? Are there any speedo pickups, transducers, or thru hull fittings within 17" of the motor centerline on the boat?

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Motor blown because of VRO

Why did the motor have to be rebuilt the first time?<br /><br />Was the oil tank drained? Any water in the oil tank?

 

[Cortes165]

Re: Motor blown because of VRO

wow, thanks for all your input. You all have some interesting points. I can see a lot of other issues that could have caused the failure. Like you say above, if it was an oil issue, I will see the damage in the bottom end. At least this info gives me more knowledge on what to really look for.<br />The hot piston? Cylinders are scuffed on the intake and exh portion. Not on the sides (where wrist pin rides).<br />Thermostat.....no mention of it on work order<br />water impeller..#5001593<br />Oil tank was drained and cleaned.<br />The thing that really urks me, now that something went wrong with the engine, the shop is trying to find all kinds of excuses. <br />Thanks again. Hopefully this will help me from getting hosed.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Motor blown because of VRO

But what was the reason the motor had to be rebuilt 20 hours ago?

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: Motor blown because of VRO

Did they do anything to the carbs when they rebuilt this thing? How do you know you weren't running a lean condition for 20 hours at high rpm? Also you said that 2 cylinders went down to 100 psi, but 100 is pretty good, so did the other cylinders stay higher, therefore meaning that not all cylinders are scored? If so I think an oiling problem sounds suspect as mentioned earlier in the post. If they didn't mention putting a new VRO in on a rebuild and didn't have you sign anything to that effect then how can they possibly warranty a rebuild, they gotta give you something for blowing after 20 hrs.

 

[Cortes165]

Re: Motor blown because of VRO

Read patiently. I'll try to make this short.<br />A friend owned this boat and blew the motor last year. Had it repaired and never used it. I purchased the boat from him this summer, where it had sat in his garage for 8 months. I went to the shop where the engine was built and they said a piston ring had broke and caused the engine failure. They knew of the boat and would honor any problems or warranty as if I was the original owner. I just had a long talk with the previous owner and he told me the engine needed a complete overhaul because of an oiling problem (according to the shop at the time). Now on the work order it mentioned nothing about why the engine failed but if it was an oiling problem the pump should have been changed (it was only tested). The shop has now given me two completely different answers. "Are we getting scammed or what??"<br />Dhadley...reason for rebuild???? Now i'm guessing.<br />Question to another post.... Compression of 100 doesn't sound bad. It is bad if all cylinders were at 120psi before any of this happened. And yes carb kits were used during the rebuild.<br />What am i supposed to do now????<br />The shop is supposed to look at the bottom end this week but I want to dismantle the bottom end myself to see what's inside. If the oiling system was working would there not be an oily film on the crank, brgs, etc.????<br />Sorry for the long post.