Mercury trim tilt

[Drewcdf]

Trim motor works. I have emptied the hydraulic fluid out and replaced with fresh. No movement with hydraulic at all. I have attempted to get rid of all the air in the fluid, but still no movement.

Serial number G226225

1995 mercury force 75 horse

I lift the motor up and down manually to move fluid/ get air out of fluid.

I have left the cap off after refilling it and pushing the trim button. Fluid is being moved by the motor to the cylinder but no movement of the hydraulic cylinder...

A couple times after refilling with fluid motor would really bog down like it's trying to push fluid threw but can't ( or not much at least). Then It clears itself after I move motor up and down manually...

 

[sam am I]

Re: Mercury trim tilt

Firstly and formost.........I think its customary at ones first post for the first reply to say :welcome: to iboats!!! So, :welcome: aboard to iboats!!!

Most of us here are quite normal and like to try to help one another. Others?...........well, you know about "others"!! I needn't say more, however that said.........

I'm no expert but, I've been playing one on TV and here recently when I get loose.

It's looking like we're sorta like on our own with this en'lessss,...........Well, I have this plan. Having/stating an opinion about something here usually incites some reactions, so I'll try that first!!

This sounds pump'ish or check valve'ish or o-ring'ish(yes yes, that covers most of the planet, I'm waaaay out on a limb now) IMO.....

I don't know how merc put yours together so this may or may not relate but first, if it were mine and/or similar, I'd say check the pump("a") and/or "d". It might be that it "appears" to be moving fluid properly.

So in an order from simplest/fastest/easiest to check......




1) 2 screws and pop the motor off and take a peek at "d" as pictured above. Perhaps "d" has sheared or stripped its seats as it couples the motor to the pump together.

2) Next.....the pump "a" is not able to create the required pressure.........I'm just at opening mine just because(long story, has to do with cold weather and boredom)..........standby.

3) Next.....the trim rams have check valves in them(mine anyway), if those/that is stuck open, the hydraulic fluid can't develop a high pressure side on one side of the piston




4) Next......the piston/o-ring itself is bad and fluid is leaking past.....as above "the hydraulic fluid can't develop a high pressure side on one side of the piston"

5) Last(I think)......The cylinder bore has crapped the carpet......as above "fluid is leaking past.....as above "the hydraulic fluid can't develop a high pressure side on one side of the piston""


This is JMO and I'm SURE there are lots more out there

 

[sam am I]

Re: Mercury trim tilt

Part 2.......after opening pump(see photo C for just prior to), revisions and addendum's to listed #'s above

#1 above, after inspecting, you can insert part "d" into its pump assembly seat key way(see photo C) and rotate(either direction) freely by hand, part "d" just inserts into one of two gears that mesh(see photo A) to move the oil...if it doesn't turn freely......issues w gears most likely!

#2 above....if ANY crap gets in and the screens(see photo B, left and right bottom) don't pick it up, there are four check valve balls(see photo A) that have precision seats that if excess junk is floating around inside, it could certainly mess things up.

OR, if the crap floating around got to a point it plugged the screens, oil flow could cease to flow correctly.

OR, the o-rings (see photo B, left and right top) are shot and fluid is squirting/leaking as pressure is developing.

Of course a set of test gauges as merc calls out for can tell you you need to go inside and look for the above listed issues but, I don't have a set of these high of pressure gauges as I suspect not many back yard mech's do either.


A B C


Oh and yes, the oil SHOULD be present in photo C. In Normal sitting/running position it wouldn't have necessarily got here like this but, I tipped it during removal and some ran up through the casting voids from the rez pool beneath the pump.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: Mercury trim tilt

If you only drained and refilled the fluid, seems your only problem is getting the air out.

Bleeding the PT unit:

Add PT fluid till even with threads at bottom of fill screw with engine full up position. Use QK PTT fluid or ATF as an alternative. Push the down button. Get what you can. Push the up button. Get what you can. Repeat 3 times. Check fluid. Add if it dropped. Continue the process till the fluid remains even with the bottom of the threads and PTT functions. If it takes more than 3 times so be it. You can monitor your progress. If you start getting desired results, obviously continue till you get the right answer. Keep checking the fluid level with the engine all the way up.

Don't forget to close the manual release valve...full cw till tight.....the one below the 4 screws mounting the assy to the engine bracket and 90 degrees to the starboard side and lower than the fill cap....smaller too.

Info from the serv. man.

Mark

 

[sam am I]

Re: Mercury trim tilt

And there ya go......Air!! :noidea:

 

[Drewcdf]

Re: Mercury trim tilt

If you only drained and refilled the fluid, seems your only problem is getting the air out.

Bleeding the PT unit:

Add PT fluid till even with threads at bottom of fill screw with engine full up position. Use QK PTT fluid or ATF as an alternative. Push the down button. Get what you can. Push the up button. Get what you can. Repeat 3 times. Check fluid. Add if it dropped. Continue the process till the fluid remains even with the bottom of the threads and PTT functions. If it takes more than 3 times so be it. You can monitor your progress. If you start getting desired results, obviously continue till you get the right answer. Keep checking the fluid level with the engine all the way up.

Don't forget to close the manual release valve...full cw till tight.....the one below the 4 screws mounting the assy to the engine bracket and 90 degrees to the starboard side and lower than the fill cap....smaller too.

Info from the serv. man.

Mark

I have tried getting the air out many times with no results. I have opened the cap to put fluid with the motor in the up position( with me lifting it myself) put the cap back on and lower the motor back down manually. (With my hands). Then push up or down buttons to get hydraulic ram to move and nothing. I have repeated this many times.

I have left this for 3 days and tried this again and still nothing. (Hoping that fresh fluid would help check valve/o ring(s). I am going to take pump apart and see what's going on.

 

[Drewcdf]

Re: Mercury trim tilt

Firstly and formost.........I think its customary at ones first post for the first reply to say :welcome: to iboats!!! So, :welcome: aboard to iboats!!!

Most of us here are quite normal and like to try to help one another. Others?...........well, you know about "others"!! I needn't say more, however that said.........

I'm no expert but, I've been playing one on TV and here recently when I get loose.

It's looking like we're sorta like on our own with this en'lessss,...........Well, I have this plan. Having/stating an opinion about something here usually incites some reactions, so I'll try that first!!

This sounds pump'ish or check valve'ish or o-ring'ish(yes yes, that covers most of the planet, I'm waaaay out on a limb now) IMO.....

I don't know how merc put yours together so this may or may not relate but first, if it were mine and/or similar, I'd say check the pump("a") and/or "d". It might be that it "appears" to be moving fluid properly.

So in an order from simplest/fastest/easiest to check......


View attachment 222806

1) 2 screws and pop the motor off and take a peek at "d" as pictured above. Perhaps "d" has sheared or stripped its seats as it couples the motor to the pump together.

2) Next.....the pump "a" is not able to create the required pressure.........I'm just at opening mine just because(long story, has to do with cold weather and boredom)..........standby.

3) Next.....the trim rams have check valves in them(mine anyway), if those/that is stuck open, the hydraulic fluid can't develop a high pressure side on one side of the piston

View attachment 222807


4) Next......the piston/o-ring itself is bad and fluid is leaking past.....as above "the hydraulic fluid can't develop a high pressure side on one side of the piston"

5) Last(I think)......The cylinder bore has crapped the carpet......as above "fluid is leaking past.....as above "the hydraulic fluid can't develop a high pressure side on one side of the piston""


This is JMO and I'm SURE there are lots more out there

Thanks for welcoming me and for your info. I am going to take this apart tomorrow and reference your diagrams.

 

[Drewcdf]

Re: Mercury trim tilt

If you only drained and refilled the fluid, seems your only problem is getting the air out.

Bleeding the PT unit:

Add PT fluid till even with threads at bottom of fill screw with engine full up position. Use QK PTT fluid or ATF as an alternative. Push the down button. Get what you can. Push the up button. Get what you can. Repeat 3 times. Check fluid. Add if it dropped. Continue the process till the fluid remains even with the bottom of the threads and PTT functions. If it takes more than 3 times so be it. You can monitor your progress. If you start getting desired results, obviously continue till you get the right answer. Keep checking the fluid level with the engine all the way up.

Don't forget to close the manual release valve...full cw till tight.....the one below the 4 screws mounting the assy to the engine bracket and 90 degrees to the starboard side and lower than the fill cap....smaller too.

Info from the serv. man.

Mark

What is this manual release valve though?! I have a white plastic screw with a C clip or E clip on the outside part. I took this out to drain all fluid. It has 2 O rings on the inside part. Overall length of this whit plastic screw is about 2 inches. Maybe 3 inches. Is this the manual release valve?! I also don't see the point of the C or E clip, it doesn't keep it from coming out... I kept the clip on while I took the whit screw out.

 

[sam am I]

Re: Mercury trim tilt

What is this manual release valve though?! I have a white plastic screw with a C clip or E clip on the outside part. I took this out to drain all fluid. It has 2 O rings on the inside part. Overall length of this whit plastic screw is about 2 inches. Maybe 3 inches. Is this the manual release valve?! I also don't see the point of the C or E clip, it doesn't keep it from coming out... I kept the clip on while I took the whit screw out.

Yes and yes it has an "E" clip("circlip") on it. Not sure still what your setup looks like but, this should get us close? The test setup adapter you see in step #4 has the same profile(minus the extended hex head of course) as the "manual release valve" screw.

Oh btw, Photo B above http://forums.iboats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=222815&d=1391637391 .............. upper left screw hole, look just behind it. That's the head(sideways) of the of the manual release valve screw w/o the "circlip".

Photo C above http://forums.iboats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=222817&d=1391558732 ......you can just see it(same orientation)also but, this time w the circlip.

And you quite welcome on both accounts, let us know what ya find out when ya get'er fixed?

 

[Texasmark]

Re: Mercury trim tilt

What is this manual release valve though?! I have a white plastic screw with a C clip or E clip on the outside part. I took this out to drain all fluid. It has 2 O rings on the inside part. Overall length of this whit plastic screw is about 2 inches. Maybe 3 inches. Is this the manual release valve?! I also don't see the point of the C or E clip, it doesn't keep it from coming out... I kept the clip on while I took the whit screw out.

Oh! Now we are introducing a variable. Apparently you disturbed a seal draining the fluid and that seal didn't reseal properly. The manual valve is to allow you to move the engine manually. A fluid bypass if you will and being such, if it leaks it will bypass fluid and you will have the problem mentioned....or could have.

Looks like MR. Sam is the man, dead on the problem. But usually just vacating the air solves the problem. Apparently this isn't the usual.

Good luck,
Mark

 

[RRitt]

Re: Mercury trim tilt

The nylon manual release valve should have three orings and a rounded tip. Nylon can absorb water and swell. If it does, the tip gets stuck inside system and twists off. Difficult to fix since you have to extract the tip without scratching aluminum.

 

[sam am I]

Re: Mercury trim tilt

@Texas......Lol, I'm not out of the woods yet, I just made it all up(J/K, it's legit) . I have not clue what is wrong with it.


@RRitt.........Hold the phone!!

So, I took mine all the way out yesterday and it looked like the one above, no nylon tip though. You're say'n it should have looked like this one below?(minus the extended hex gauge hook-up head of course) and the tip is stuck/stayed inside?

Ummmmm, does this mean I need to dig the tip out and re-attach it? Or can I assume the third o-ring tip area'ish slid back into its' nylon tip when I threaded it back in?

If they swell, should I just re-place it? Perhaps this swelling makes them not so functional?

 

[RRitt]

Re: Mercury trim tilt

this is the manual release valve for 1995 75HP elpto

Mercury Mariner New OE Trim Tilt Relief Valve O Ring Kit 813442A2 893929A01 | eBay

the problem is not the swelling. the problem is when people try to open a swollen MRV then the tip often twists off inside the pump. if the tip breaks off the typical symptom is a trim system that will lift but not retract.

The 1995 pump is usually a rocker arm design and extremely difficult to rebuild. The DIY success rate is around 30%. Sometimes you can just get lucky and gently punch out the tip from other side. Usually, it takes a lot of prior experience to rebuild that pump.

 

[sam am I]

Re: Mercury trim tilt

Ohhhhhhhhh, I misread. Got it. Yeah, mine was metal and the "nylon" and tip I thought you were referring to is a "tool" in this latest drawing, my mistake, sry .......Apples and Oranges!!

 

[Texasmark]

Re: Mercury trim tilt

Just googled Nylon and moisture absorption and learned something!

Disregard post.

Mark

 

[RRitt]

Re: Mercury trim tilt

Just googled Nylon and moisture absorption and learned something!

Disregard post.

Mark

I only blame the nylon from circumstantial evidence.

Mercury's literature blames the owner for trying run the trim System without having the manual release tightened. However, this does not fit with real world. Running trim with a loose MRV will split an oring but the Nylon itself remains intact.

Another suspect is the combination of water and freezing. However, the MRV breaks equally in all climates.

The final suspect was water. Almost every system with broken MRV had signs of water in the oil. When idle, this water sinks to the bottom and the nylon MRV is effectively submerged. It is the only explanation for broken MRV in Mercury trims that is consistent with almost every break.

 

[Drewcdf]

Re: Mercury trim tilt

this is the manual release valve for 1995 75HP elpto

Mercury Mariner New OE Trim Tilt Relief Valve O Ring Kit 813442A2 893929A01 | eBay

the problem is not the swelling. the problem is when people try to open a swollen MRV then the tip often twists off inside the pump. if the tip breaks off the typical symptom is a trim system that will lift but not retract.

The 1995 pump is usually a rocker arm design and extremely difficult to rebuild. The DIY success rate is around 30%. Sometimes you can just get lucky and gently punch out the tip from other side. Usually, it takes a lot of prior experience to rebuild that pump.

Ok! Good thing I didn't pull the pump off and take it apart yet! Took this MRV white nylon "plug" out and it has only 2 orings. The tip looks like it is broken and probably stuck inside still with the 3rd oring.

So, how do you go about getting the broken tip out?

I ordered the MRV on that eBay site, that's the cheapest I found.

Also, my symptom is that the hydraulic doesn't move up or down... With it stuck in there you say that it will lift but not retract? hopefully this will solve everything.

And finally how tight do I put the new MRV IN? Or how far do I back it out????

 

[sam am I]

Re: Mercury trim tilt

Dang merc and the plastic crap, so if it broke by itself(not while removing it)and caused the thing to stop working..........would a metal one work? Perhaps they're the same size as for example mine. Just a thought if these things are just flaking out.

I whip out the calipers and go measure mine.....

 

[RRitt]

Re: Mercury trim tilt

Ok! Good thing I didn't pull the pump off and take it apart yet! Took this MRV white nylon "plug" out and it has only 2 orings. The tip looks like it is broken and probably stuck inside still with the 3rd oring.

So, how do you go about getting the broken tip out?

I ordered the MRV on that eBay site, that's the cheapest I found.

Also, my symptom is that the hydraulic doesn't move up or down... With it stuck in there you say that it will lift but not retract? hopefully this will solve everything.

And finally how tight do I put the new MRV IN? Or how far do I back it out????

your odds are not very good. at best 70% success rate even if you are meticulous.

you'll need a cylinder kit
Cylinder Rebuild Kit Mercury Mariner Power Trim Tilt 1988 2006 P N 813432A3 | eBay
two size 009 orings
O Ring Buna N 009 1 16" Round ID 7 32" ID 208" OD 11 32" 70A PK 100 | eBay
a few size 011 orings
AS568 011 Rubber Buna 70 O Ring 5 16" ID 1 16" Cross Section 7 16" OD 100 Pcs | eBay
and a 3inch adjustable spanner (industrial strength)
McMaster-Carr

fully extend system to release internal pressure. clamp piston eye in vice with trim motor upside down. remove 2 socket head bolts connecting pump assy to ram. remove motor from base (over bucket). do not take pump apart (you may never get it to work again). get a nail of suitable hardness and largest diameter to fit through small hole in pump face. cut the tip of nail flat or convex. Try to gently punch out the tip. clean out debris. If it will not punch then us a 3/32 drill bit and a very long/skinny screw extractor. do not scratch or mar aluminum. thoroughy flush, clean , lubricate. reassemble with new seal and parts.

 

[Drewcdf]

Re: Mercury trim tilt

Took a 1/16 inch drill bit end it punch out nylon end. It was wedged in there pretty good.