Merc 470 modifying water pump seal problem

[Xlanci]

Hey guys I was wondering if anyone had some idea or could pony out some problems I might run into if I plan to add a external water pump and delete the one on the engine to prevent that common water pump oil seal leak

 

[achris]

Don't try to re-invent the wheel. Just add the speedisleeves to the shaft (like everybody else does) and it'll be fixed...

Trying to add an external pump just can't work. The plumbing is all integral to the front cover. Trying to remove all that would involve designing and casting a new front cover.

Chris........

 

[Scott Danforth]

or pull the cam out and re-weld the groove in the snout, grind it down and flame harden / carburize the snout.

speedi sleeves are faster and cheaper.

 

[mr 88]

Many of my engines including my current 454s run off crank mounted raw water pumps. Can't remember the brand name , Google, Ebay etc it .My older 305s use the auxiliary pump that is mounted like a alternator with the adjustable tension bracket. Don't see why either wouldn't work with some obvious modifications.

 

[Xlanci]

I’ve already gone through the normal routes and replaced the seals and sleeve about 5 times now and the motor isn’t bad or anything it runs strong but always ends up with some heating problem that’s the whole reason I’m looking for alternatives I know the 470 doesn’t haven’t a good history but I rather enjoy it till it’s trashed then trash it for a engine I prefer so really any good idea to keep the seals from leaking which in return stops my heating problem would be much appreciate and I understand it may not be possible but I’ll definitely try any advice you have

 

[Scott Danforth]

If you had any overheat. Change the head gasket

 

[Scott06]

Many of my engines including my current 454s run off crank mounted raw water pumps. Can't remember the brand name , Google, Ebay etc it .My older 305s use the auxiliary pump that is mounted like a alternator with the adjustable tension bracket. Don't see why either wouldn't work with some obvious modifications.

you are taking about sea water pumps not the block circulation pump tgat the op speaks of. Your 454 will have a circulation pump mounted to the front of the block over the timing cover. This circulates water through block and heads, and is feed by the crank mounted seawater or raw water pump.

 

[Scott06]

I’ve already gone through the normal routes and replaced the seals and sleeve about 5 times now and the motor isn’t bad or anything it runs strong but always ends up with some heating problem that’s the whole reason I’m looking for alternatives I know the 470 doesn’t haven’t a good history but I rather enjoy it till it’s trashed then trash it for a engine I prefer so really any good idea to keep the seals from leaking which in return stops my heating problem would be much appreciate and I understand it may not be possible but I’ll definitely try any advice you have

I have no first hand experience with the 470, but generally the speedy sleeve seems to work for folks . If you are having these repeated failures there is another issue thinking maybe misaligned timing cover or bent cam snout, wrong speedy sleeve , issue with water pump to cam alignment. Yes this design is bad but its not as bad as you are experiencing. Hopefully one of the guys who has run 470 s long time will chime in

 

[Xlanci]

If you had any overheat. Change the head gasket

That was my first repair and did it twice to make sure

 

[Xlanci]

I have no first hand experience with the 470, but generally the speedy sleeve seems to work for folks . If you are having these repeated failures there is another issue thinking maybe misaligned timing cover or bent cam snout, wrong speedy sleeve , issue with water pump to cam alignment. Yes this design is bad but its not as bad as you are experiencing. Hopefully one of the guys who has run 470 s long time will chime in

Yeah I appreciate it I’ll double check everything again today I guess and let y’all know what I find

 

[Scott Danforth]

That was my first repair and did it twice to make sure

Sierra gasket (leaks) or mercruiser?

Has it overheated since you replaced the head gasket? if so, it may have been spit out again.

do you have the updated (larger) HX?

the 470 was an ok concept with a ****-poor execution

the things that are bad

iron head on aluminum block (two totally different rates of thermal expansion)
open deck (floating bores) in the block (making it really difficult to seal regardless of head type)

more than a 10 degree over-heat is enough to spit a head gasket. that means if a leaf or plastic bag blocks the water intake on the lower for more than a few seconds things go sideways

both of them take creativity to fix. an edelbrock aluminum head for a ford FE motor will get you an aluminum head. a laser cut bore stabilization spider dropped into the top of the deck and tack welded in place will keep the bores from moving around.

the other things that are not good:
soft cam snout - fixed by speedi sleeves
poor charging circuit and water cooled regulator - fixed by alternator conversion

so, what is the list of issues you have? be detailed
what is the corrective actions you have done to date? be detailed

you mentioned multiple speedi sleeve attempts. however have you put a dial indicator on the front of the cam snout to check runout? if the snout is bent, that could cause your problem of a leaking seal.

 

[Xlanci]

Sierra gasket (leaks) or mercruiser?

Has it overheated since you replaced the head gasket? if so, it may have been spit out again.

do you have the updated (larger) HX?

the 470 was an ok concept with a ****-poor execution

the things that are bad

iron head on aluminum block (two totally different rates of thermal expansion)
open deck (floating bores) in the block (making it really difficult to seal regardless of head type)

more than a 10 degree over-heat is enough to spit a head gasket. that means if a leaf or plastic bag blocks the water intake on the lower for more than a few seconds things go sideways

both of them take creativity to fix. an edelbrock aluminum head for a ford FE motor will get you an aluminum head. a laser cut bore stabilization spider dropped into the top of the deck and tack welded in place will keep the bores from moving around.

the other things that are not good:
soft cam snout - fixed by speedi sleeves
poor charging circuit and water cooled regulator - fixed by alternator conversion

so, what is the list of issues you have? be detailed
what is the corrective actions you have done to date? be detailed

you mentioned multiple speedi sleeve attempts. however have you put a dial indicator on the front of the cam snout to check runout? if the snout is bent, that could cause your problem of a leaking seal.

Alright let give y’all a complete rundown since I’ve had it I bought it with the head off because of a blown head gasket bought the first head gasket which was Sierra still had a leak so then found out it was the seals cause it was dripping out the weep whole and adding to the oil pan so I replaced the seals worked perfect for a day or two of use then it over heated again finally realized the overheating was being caused by the water pump and kinked up gimbal hose so I replaced everything for the final time this is after all the seal and sleeve replacements just summed it up alittle but that’s about where I stand now but after doing all that it still leaking out the weep hole almost immediately after refilling and it seems to be more then the original dripping it started off with

 

[Xlanci]

Alright let give y’all a complete rundown since I’ve had it I bought it with the head off because of a blown head gasket bought the first head gasket which was Sierra still had a leak so then found out it was the seals cause it was dripping out the weep whole and adding to the oil pan so I replaced the seals worked perfect for a day or two of use then it over heated again finally realized the overheating was being caused by the water pump and kinked up gimbal hose so I replaced everything for the final time this is after all the seal and sleeve replacements just summed it up alittle but that’s about where I stand now but after doing all that it still leaking out the weep hole almost immediately after refilling and it seems to be more then the original dripping it started off with

I was thinking maybe I installed the Speedo sleeve in wrong but I can’t see how I could’ve done that could you give me a quick run down of the installation for I can be sure everything correct

 

[Scott Danforth]

I believe there are two sleeves that get installed

 

[Scott Danforth]

Alright let give y’all a complete rundown since I’ve had it I bought it with the head off because of a blown head gasket bought the first head gasket which was Sierra still had a leak so then found out it was the seals cause it was dripping out the weep whole and adding to the oil pan so I replaced the seals worked perfect for a day or two of use then it over heated again finally realized the overheating was being caused by the water pump and kinked up gimbal hose so I replaced everything for the final time this is after all the seal and sleeve replacements just summed it up alittle but that’s about where I stand now but after doing all that it still leaking out the weep hole almost immediately after refilling and it seems to be more then the original dripping it started off with

Did you replace the impeller in the drive?

If you did, did you find all the impeller pieces?

Did you clean the tube side of the HX?

What brand of headgasket?

Did you check the head for straightness and flatness?

Did you pressure test the cooling system before filling?

 

[jhamblett]

This is mine. Works perfect

 

[Scott06]

This is mine. Works perfect

Is that two speedi sleeves? one for each seal area I assume ?

 

[Xlanci]

Did you replace the impeller in the drive?

If you did, did you find all the impeller pieces?

Did you clean the tube side of the HX?

What brand of headgasket?

Did you check the head for straightness and flatness?

Did you pressure test the cooling system before filling?

If you mean the impeller on the outdrive then yes and yes

Ive completely removed and inspected it seemed to be newer definitely wasn’t stock

The brand w
As just a reg mercruiser oem gasket

Yes I brought it to a shop and had them take care of it as well as pressure testing the head

No I didn’t I honestly didn’t know you could without filling it and if so then how would you spot a leak

 

[Xlanci]

This is mine. Works perfect

Thank you yeah mine looks about the same so don’t know where I’m going wrong

 

[Scott Danforth]

No I didn’t I honestly didn’t know you could without filling it and if so then how would you spot a leak

with coolant drained. pressure test with automotive coolant system pressure test. it should hold 15 psi indefinitely.

if it doesnt hold pressure, listen for the hissing