Mayday! Honda 115 died and family reunion starts in 3 days!

[sunedog]

Need your help. Have a 2001 Bennington pontoon with a 2000 Honda BF115. It has run very well since we bought the boat in May. Last night, it started fine for a late night cruise. Only made it about 100 yards at no wake speed before it died. Could not restart it. Tried again this morning and no fire. It acts like the kill switch is not connected. But I've monkeyed with it and it seems fine.<br /><br />- It cranks freely. It just won't fire.<br />- Pulled a plug and verified I have spark. It may be weak though. Tough to tell in the sunlight.<br />- Pulled the rest of the plugs. All were slightly wet and black. Dried them with a match, wire brushed them clean and blew them out with an air compressor. Still won't fire. It's fuel injected, but it acts like it is flooding.<br />- Pulled plugs again, put a shot of starting fluid in each cylinder. Still won't fire.<br />- Have half a tank of fuel. I am considering it may be water in the fuel, but it ran fine for the first half tank. Tried to siphon out some gas to check for water. Only got a few drops out. Not sure I was pulling from the bottom of the tank, but think I was. Didn't see water.<br />- Don't know if it could be a cause, but we had over 2 inches of rain yesterday. I don't see how that could be the problem, but I'll throw it out there.<br />- The motor has alarms and protective shut down mode for lack of oil pressure or overheating. No indicators of either problem. It's got plenty of oil and I have checked the water intake and it's clear.<br /><br />Oh -- we're hosting my wife's family reunion starting this Friday. We're going to have 24 house guests. I HAVE to have this boat running by then. All the mechanics in this area are back logged for about four weeks.<br /><br />What else should I be checking? <br /><br />TIA (Thanks in advance)

 

[BF130]

Re: Mayday! Honda 115 died and family reunion starts in 3 days!

My initial thought would be water as well. Sounds like you don't have a fuel/water separator - install one! Could all that rain have pooled around the fuel vent and leaked in there somehow? Do you have 10% ethanol gas in your state? Is the gas tank also a 2000? Ethanol can clean out an old gas tank and deposit the gunk in your fuel system.<br /><br />What does the crankcase oil look like? Does it smell like gas?<br /><br />Does the starter turn rapidly or slowly? You need some rpm on that fly-wheel to get things going.<br /><br />(I'm not a mechanic, just someone who owns a similar motor and who has delt with some similar issues.)

 

[BF130]

Re: Mayday! Honda 115 died and family reunion starts in 3 days!

Oh, I forgot. There could be water in your VST (vapor separator tank). Look at the starboard side of the motor - locate the VST - locate the drain screw and nipple where the fuel will exit - tilt up the motor - place suitable hose on nipple - unscrew drain and inspect fuel therein.

 

[sunedog]

Re: Mayday! Honda 115 died and family reunion starts in 3 days!

Thank you for your time and suggestions, BF130. To answer your questions:<br /><br />- I don't know if I have a water/fuel seperator. I bought the boat used a couple of months ago. This is my first 4 stroke outboard. I'll check into adding one.<br />- I don't see how water could have gotten in through the vent tube or the fill tube. The boat is a pontoon with a permanently mounted tank in a compartment under the swim pad. The filler cover is a plastic Perko door that fits tightly and is hinged on the top.<br />- Not sure about Ethanol in our gas. I'll check.<br />- I pulled the dipstick and the oil looked normal. I didn't think to smell it for gas. Why would it smell like gas?<br />- The starter turns rapidly.<br />- I'll try the VST procedure tonight.<br /><br />I may also try connecting the gas line to a portable can of fresh fuel.

 

[BF130]

Re: Mayday! Honda 115 died and family reunion starts in 3 days!

Originally posted by sunedog:<br /> I may also try connecting the gas line to a portable can of fresh fuel.

Before you do this, drain the VST. Also be sure to drain the fuel filter. If yours is set up like my 130, then there is a low-pressure filter pre-VST made of plastic. There may be another black metal egg-shaped one post-VST on the high-pressure side. I wouldn't touch that one yet.<br /><br />To see if you have a water separator - start at the fuel hose connected at the cowling and work your way back to the gas tank fitting. The separator will look like an oil filter. Rather big and some have a clear bowl on the bottom of the filter for inspection purposes.<br /><br />Fuel vent - you should have one somewhere - either built into the cap, the tank or likely right next to the cap with a hose going to the tank.<br /><br />Fuel ordor in oil indicates a possible leaky o-ring on the injectors. Not sure if that would cause a problem starting, rather, a problem with diluted oil - just trying to spot the easy stuff.

 

[sunedog]

Re: Mayday! Honda 115 died and family reunion starts in 3 days!

Great information. Thanks again. I plan to buy a set of fresh plugs and a manual on the way home tonight. I'll start tonight with draining the VST and fuel filter. <br /><br />- Pretty sure I don't have a water/fuel seperator, based on your description of where it is. The hose runs from the top of the fuel tank directly to the cowling with no interruption other than the squeeze bulb. I'll ask the guys at West Marine about adding one to my application.<br />- I'll examine the fuel tank vent hose again to see if it's possible the heavy rain made it's way in there.

 

[sunedog]

Re: Mayday! Honda 115 died and family reunion starts in 3 days!

Update for anyone who is interested:<br />Neither local Boating World nor West Marine had the manual or plugs to fit. I probably could have found plugs at a NAPA or Auto Zone but the ones in there are most likely OK and I didn't want to waste daylight chasing new plugs.<br /><br />I tried to find the VST but was really unsure where it was. The owners manual (which I think is very poor, BTW), has a line drawing of the VST, but I couldn't for the life of me see anything that looked like the drawing on my motor. There is some sort of module that could be a VST, but it didn't look like the drawing. I guess perhaps the VST design has changed and the manual and my motor are not in synch. So I wasn't able to drain a VST.<br /><br />Re fuel filters, I see two of them, but neither is black. I assume the first one (closest to the gas tank) is the low pressure and the second (downstream) is the high pressure one. I pulled the suspected low pressure one off of it's rubber mount and contemplated draining it. But not being sure if gas would shoot out under pressure, I chose not to. This filter is clear and I could see the gas inside. It looked normal. That is, there was no obvious seperation between gas and water.<br /><br />So I disconnected the fuel hose from the gas tank and dropped it in a portable can of fresh gas. I pumped the bulb and tried to start the motor. Tried for quite a while, periodically pulling and cleaning the plugs, and still no luck. If there is water in the gas, I realize the entire fuel system has the bad gas in it and it may not be practical to get the good gas in it this way. But I had to try.<br /><br />Finally gave up when I ran out of daylight. Put it on a trailer late last night and towed it early this morning to the dealer that sold it new. I'm at their mercy now.<br /><br />Thanks for your time to help me try to fix this. I'll let everyone know what the professional diagnosis is.

 

[BF130]

Re: Mayday! Honda 115 died and family reunion starts in 3 days!

Sorry that it didn't get going for you. Another thought was that maybe a fuse blew. There is a small fuse bank on port side above the starter. Your 2000 model may be significantly different from mine. The VST is above the fuel pump, behind the low-pressure filter (presuming the front of the motor is at the stern of the boat).

 

[sunedog]

Re: Mayday! Honda 115 died and family reunion starts in 3 days!

I visually checked the three fuses and they all looked fine. <br /><br />I really need a service manual. I don't think I could even tell you where the fuel pump is. I'll ask the service tech to point out some of these components when I go back to pick it up.

 

[BF130]

Re: Mayday! Honda 115 died and family reunion starts in 3 days!

I've got a Clymer and would recommend getting the Honda shop manual. I saw one on Ebay for around $90 a while back. The Clymer is about $30 - but you have to sift through all the model years 1999 forward and HP models 2HP and up. Too much stuff that doesn't apply to your motor in there.

 

[sunedog]

Re: Mayday! Honda 115 died and family reunion starts in 3 days!

Just got a call. The boat is fixed!<br /><br />Very strange cause: I live in South Carolina and mud dauber wasps are a nuisance here. They get into enclosed areas and build cocoons using regurgitated mud. It's amazing what they can accomplish in a short amount of time. According to the service tech, mud daubers built a nest under the timing belt. When we tried to start the boat, some of the mud must have made the timing belt skip a few teeth so the timing was way off. This had to happen in 24 hours because we used the boat all day Saturday and had the problem late Sunday night.<br /><br />I saw some evidence of old mud dauber nests (just clay like stains on various parts of the motor), but I assumed they were remnants from off season storage.<br /><br />Thanks for all your guidance, BF130. Happy boating to you.

 

[BF130]

Re: Mayday! Honda 115 died and family reunion starts in 3 days!

Have a great time this Friday - and install that Racor water separator.