Looking for my 1st boat

[trilerian]

I’m sure the question is asked all the time… But, I think I have finally convinced my wife to buy a boat next spring. That means plenty of shopping and research before then. However, lots of caveats must be considered.
1[SUP]st[/SUP] 5000 lb towing capacity on the Jeep.
2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Needs to be able to handle calmer days on Lake Michigan, and anything inland lakes can throw at it.
3[SUP]rd[/SUP] Watersports is a must. Skiing, tubing, wakeboarding. Not sure on the surfing thing…
4[SUP]th[/SUP] Would like a good stereo in it
5[SUP]th[/SUP] money, I am buying used here. I would like to get into a setup (boat and equipment for water sports) for under 20k US.
6[SUP]th[/SUP] I would like it to last a while, probably will use it a couple of times a month through the summer
7[SUP]th[/SUP] Probably a max of 6 adults at a time, maybe a couple of kids too.
With all that said, I have been looking at used Moomba’s in the early 2000s. But I am lost in everything that I can possibly get… I have no idea how old is too old, or what will really work for me. I do know that if we really like owning a boat and use it like I plan to, then an upgrade in the future is possible.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[wahlejim]

Welcome Aboard!

You are describing 2 different boats here. I grew up and still live in SE Wisconsin and can say that I have never had an enjoyable experience on Lake Michigan in an inboard boat designed for watersports, (Moomba's, Malibu, Nautiques, Tige, Mastercraft, etc.) I am not saying it is not possible, but the 10 or so times I have been out beat me up pretty good. 1 foot chop is considered a calm day on the lake, not so much in an inboard boat that likes to be on plane. Your experience may be different. (I can get into boat design and why this is the case if you want, or we can leave it at that)

One item that is a must for me, and the change occurred right around the time frame you are looking (early 2000s) is engine location. With 6 adults and water sports, you definitely want all of your seating forward of the engine not a mid-engine model. You will also want an open bow.

The Bad news, 20k is not going to get you there. I have been looking for quite some time for used ones that come up for that range and they just don't come around very much. $25-30k is much more common plus the cost of water sports equipment). These boats cost in excess of $100k brand new and don't depreciate very quickly like bargain bow riders.
Your area may be different, but not by $10k (I have seen comparable boats cheaper in Michigan than they are in Wisconsin and Illinois)

As always, expect prices to rise in the spring compared to boats for sale now. (Supply/Demand)

 

[Scott Danforth]

welcome aboard

if its a jeep CJ/YJ/TJ, etc the wheel base is short and the boat will wag the jeep

a 5000# towing capacity working backwards (1200# for trailer, #400 fuel, #400# gear leaves you 3000# for a boat)

where on lake michigan do you boat. a calm day in deaths door is 9 foot swells

you can skii, tube, and wakeboard behind a jet ski, or a 14' boat with a 40hp tiller.

if your in WI, wait until spring and buy from Missouri (lake of the ozarks). the price will be 25% less than WI/MN/MI

 

[trilerian]

Thanks for the replies. I am from Northwest Indiana, and as far as Lake Michigan is concerned I wouldn’t get far out. But maybe I just need to forget that. The options close to me, within an hour drive, are quite a few lakes and the st Joseph river.

 

[Scott Danforth]

with only 5000# towing capacity, half the Moomba line is out (you dont have enough truck to pull it)

also, if your looking at a 20 year old boat, remember, that is near the end of its design life, so the boat may need some TLC

have you thought of renting to find the style of boat you want?

 

[trilerian]

How about the Bayliner VR4? I know that it is 18' and really won't hold 6 adults, but I should be able to tow it. Also I could probably swing the $ for a brand new one, although buying a couple years old would help cover the initial depreciation. The new VRs don't have any plywood in them, so maybe they can be alright??? I know that Bayliner has a bad rep.

As to renting a boat, I didn't even know that was a thing...

 

[kpg7121]

Thanks for the replies. I am from Northwest Indiana, and as far as Lake Michigan is concerned I wouldn’t get far out. But maybe I just need to forget that. The options close to me, within an hour drive, are quite a few lakes and the st Joseph river.

If you're looking for a runabout you'll need at least a 22 ftr to carry 6 adults comfortably, not counting coolers, etc. When I was running my 19 ftr i hated having more then 4 of us on board & mine was a bowrider. Nothing worse then being crowded on a boat. Sorry but your Jeep won't tow that size boat. Unless you get a bigger tow vehicle your only out would be to rent a slip for the season at a nearby lake & pay someone to tow it end of season. I did that first year I owned my boat, then bought a truck. Good luck.

 

[Timr71]

Hi, I'll chime in.

Some of this has been mentioned here already. 1. A direct drive (inboard) boat designed for water skiing and wakeboarding, will have a terrible ride in rough water. Ask me how I know...I have one (see my boat in my signature link). And it's great for skiiing, pretty good for wakeboarding, we don't surf, and I pull my kids and their friends on tubes, but we don't make long trips down the lake unless there's little traffic and no wind. These boats love smooth water. If you decide that this is the type of boat that you do want, you're going to want one with an open bow. Finding those is much harder than finding closed bow ones. Closed bow tournament ski boats will only hold 3-4 adults. 2. For more functionality, you might be looking for an open bow runabout with an I/O. There's lots of boats in this category. 3. For towing, my Dad is a retired engineer from Jeep, so I've been around Cherokees, etc. for nearly my entire life. My boat, and others like it can be towed with a Jeep Cherokee. My uncle does this all the time, but I wouldn't go after anything bigger. (my boat+trailer+gear=approx. 4000lbs.) I don't tow mine but maybe once or twice a year though since my boat lives in a dry stack at my marina. And as has been mentioned, that cost is rougly $2K per year.

Here's an example of a boat that could work for you:

 

[trilerian]

Hi, I'll chime in.

Some of this has been mentioned here already. 1. A direct drive (inboard) boat designed for water skiing and wakeboarding, will have a terrible ride in rough water. Ask me how I know...I have one (see my boat in my signature link). And it's great for skiiing, pretty good for wakeboarding, we don't surf, and I pull my kids and their friends on tubes, but we don't make long trips down the lake unless there's little traffic and no wind. These boats love smooth water. If you decide that this is the type of boat that you do want, you're going to want one with an open bow. Finding those is much harder than finding closed bow ones. Closed bow tournament ski boats will only hold 3-4 adults. 2. For more functionality, you might be looking for an open bow runabout with an I/O. There's lots of boats in this category. 3. For towing, my Dad is a retired engineer from Jeep, so I've been around Cherokees, etc. for nearly my entire life. My boat, and others like it can be towed with a Jeep Cherokee. My uncle does this all the time, but I wouldn't go after anything bigger. (my boat+trailer+gear=approx. 4000lbs.) I don't tow mine but maybe once or twice a year though since my boat lives in a dry stack at my marina. And as has been mentioned, that cost is rougly $2K per year.

Here's an example of a boat that could work for you:

Thank you!

Yes, currently I have a 2018 Jeep Cherokee with the 3.2l v6. With an aftermarket tow package that I will install, it says I can tow 5000lbs. So I do realize I am looking for smaller boats. With that said, when I trade the Cherokee in I will get a Grand Cherokee with the hemi, which is rated for 7200lbs. So in the mean time, I think I will go with a smaller boat and see how much we really use it.
The below is a 1997 Sea Ray 185 that I could pay cash for. I do understand it would be crowded, and I do understand I will need some ballast probably and a 4 blade prop for wakeboarding. But hey, I am just starting out. I figure if I can find something like this, that seems reasonable and actually use it, then in a few years I can pick up a 22' boat that I will finance.
As to Lake Michigan, I understand that I need an entirely different boat. I would appreciate comments on the below boat, whether it seems like a decent deal.

Thanks

https://www.leadersrpm.com/default....rcraft&s=Year&d=D&t=preowned&fr=xAllInventory

 

[nitsuj]

The boat is priced right, but it's not the boat you described wanting in your first post. It's as Jeep towable as anything else. It can handle inland lakes, but it's not a big water boat. It's NOT a watersports boat. It probably has a stereo, but you'll likely want to upgrade if you really want to annoy as many people as possible. It will last a while, if you take care of it to last a while, and 6 adults and a couple kids will be extremely cramped. It's a fine boat, and probably a great first boat, but you're going to have to give up some of your wants.

 

[trilerian]

The boat is priced right, but it's not the boat you described wanting in your first post. It's as Jeep towable as anything else. It can handle inland lakes, but it's not a big water boat. It's NOT a watersports boat. It probably has a stereo, but you'll likely want to upgrade if you really want to annoy as many people as possible. It will last a while, if you take care of it to last a while, and 6 adults and a couple kids will be extremely cramped. It's a fine boat, and probably a great first boat, but you're going to have to give up some of your wants.

Will it pull a 225lb person on a wakeboard with a couple of adults in the boat? Sure, I want a dedicated wakeboard boat with all the bells and whistles, but as posted above, I can't pull it and it is more than I want to spend currently. If I spend 8k on a boat and life gets in the way and I can't use it all that much, whatever. But if I spend 50k on a boat and don't use it that much, it seems like a bad investment. I'm guessing most of the time it will just be my wife and I on the boat, occasionally we may entertain relatives or friends.

 

[Timr71]

Looks like a good starter boat to me too. My uncle has this boat, his is a Sea Ray, open bow, same power-plant, his might be a 195, not sure. I've driven it many times. For what he uses it for: lake cruising, pulling his grandkids on skis, wakebaord, or tubes, it gets the job done well enough.

I agree with Nitsuj, this is a good first boat, and a good way for you to get on the water and see what's what. Best of luck.

 

[southkogs]

Will it pull a 225lb person on a wakeboard with a couple of adults in the boat?

It will. And they're not bad boats to get started with, especially if you're a starting skier. I don't know so much about the wakeboard part. I haven't tried it, but from what I've seen you need to make a pretty big wake to get the full experience. If you just wanna' use the board - no problem. It's basically a modified trick ski, so it'll work. Getting that big ole' fat wake may be a bit of a challenge.

 

[Lowlysubaruguy]

Your looking for the boat I bought in 1997 I still own it and it might be worth more than I paid for it when it was 6 months used
1996 19.6 4.3 Mercruiser Spectrum welded aluminum boat if you didn’t know you would think it is fiberglass Deep V takes big waves better than anything I’ve ever been in its class will run over 50 ( 54 actually) with 6 big fat adults and lots of beer ok ski boat by that it makes a wake but it will pull a skier well. Excellent fuel range per gallon under 4000 pounds including the trailer.

Issues you will have in finding one, its now 20 some years old short production I think they made some form of them through 2001 and all of them need a complete interior restoration and it is a huge task. I have beat my boat like a pair of red headed step children and often and it is still solid. I only responded because this is literally the boat your looking for not some of one or the other it will do everything you want. I run mine in some seriously rough water loaded with big men. Was pulled over by the Sheriff with 12 people on board he inspected every single thing one could think of because he wanted to give me a ticket. Handed me back my papers and wished us a fun day on the river. Glad he didn’t weigh us Ive read some negative views on its thin hull dont beach it on rocks it’s not some river sled with a 1/4 hull.

If you could find one of these in good condition it would be the boat you are looking for.

 

[Leardriver]

An '02 or '03 Sea Ray 220 sundeck will work. The 240 is better, but you're getting too heavy for your jeep. The early Four Winns Funships are a good choice also. I would buy the boat in the next two months, or pay double for the same thing in the spring.

 

[nitsuj]

Will it pull a 225lb person on a wakeboard with a couple of adults in the boat? Sure, I want a dedicated wakeboard boat with all the bells and whistles, but as posted above, I can't pull it and it is more than I want to spend currently. If I spend 8k on a boat and life gets in the way and I can't use it all that much, whatever. But if I spend 50k on a boat and don't use it that much, it seems like a bad investment. I'm guessing most of the time it will just be my wife and I on the boat, occasionally we may entertain relatives or friends.

Will it? Yes. But it won't pull someone out of the water quick like a V8 with twice the power would. And it won't make a wake that most wake boarder desire. I'm not a super seasoned watersports guy, so someone else can speak with more authority. But I believe the amount of ballast you'd need to get that boat making big wake is going to be a significant amount of the boats weight capacity. Add a 225 skier, a couple chubby buddies, a cooler with some beer and a ballast bag full of water and you're talking significant weight. Enough to compromise your holeshot and how quick you can get on plane. At that point, I'd think you should be looking at an $8000 ski boat, like an old Nautique or something.

And if you're going to get into boating, and you're going to be trailering, get a vehicle suitable for towing as much as you can afford. Don't get another Jeep with a 7500 capacity and start looking at 7000# boats. It's miserable to be that close to the max. I've been there. It's no fun.

One more thing, you made a statement that made me cringe. "Bad investment". ALL boats are bad investments. In fact, they're not investments. You're spending money on a boat, not investing money in a boat. You see it in ads for used boats all the time "Over $50,000 invested". Nope, over $50,000 spent.

Not trying to sound like a jerk. It's just that you want to get into boating in the right frame of mind. "What's the least I can spend to do X" isn't the right frame of mind. You can't get the least vehicle to tow. You can't get the least boat to wake board with. I mean you can, but you'll not be as happy as if you had gotten the right equipment. The's abandoned boats in back yards all over the place because people tried to tip toe into boating and had a miserable time Craigslist is full of boats with cracked blocks from people who didn't winterize. Or blown head gaskets from people who didn't change impellers like they should (which almost happened to me). My local marinas have a few boats sink in their slip every year owned by people who wanted to just get one more year out of their bellows. Don't be that guy. Boating is expensive, no two ways about it. If you go into it thinking you need to spend as little as possible because you're not sure if you'll use it, you'll end up not using it because you spent as little as possible. (If that makes sense.)

 

[briangcc]

Thank you!

Yes, currently I have a 2018 Jeep Cherokee with the 3.2l v6. With an aftermarket tow package that I will install, it says I can tow 5000lbs. So I do realize I am looking for smaller boats. With that said, when I trade the Cherokee in I will get a Grand Cherokee with the hemi, which is rated for 7200lbs. So in the mean time, I think I will go with a smaller boat and see how much we really use it.
The below is a 1997 Sea Ray 185 that I could pay cash for. I do understand it would be crowded, and I do understand I will need some ballast probably and a 4 blade prop for wakeboarding. But hey, I am just starting out. I figure if I can find something like this, that seems reasonable and actually use it, then in a few years I can pick up a 22' boat that I will finance.
As to Lake Michigan, I understand that I need an entirely different boat. I would appreciate comments on the below boat, whether it seems like a decent deal.

Thanks

https://www.leadersrpm.com/default....rcraft&s=Year&d=D&t=preowned&fr=xAllInventory

I'll chime in on the tow vehicle portion....

It's not the engine per se, although its part of it, its more the wheelbase of the vehicle. It's small. Let me give you a real world example using one of the boats in my signature - my '05 Four Winns 200Le (which coincidentally would sorta fit your requirements but is near/above your tow rating)...

The '05 Four Winns 200Le was listed dry at 3600lbs and it sat on a tandem axle trailer (probably another 1000lbs). I routinely towed it with my pickup at the time which was a Toyota Tundra 5.7Lv8 rated to tow 10k. It was back there but you didn't get moved by it at all. It was a good solid tow. I had to have the trailer serviced and for giggles decided to use my wife's 2016 GMC Acadia SLE2 which was rated at 5k towing - very similar wheelbase to your Jeep (and the one you're considering). On the way home it was white knuckle driving as that trailer moved that SUV all over the road. And you could definitely tell it was back there as that vehicle struggled mightily on hills. In retrospect I never, ever, should have towed that boat with this vehicle and instead should have used my pickup.

Why? Wheelbase! It's a wider and longer vehicle so it doesn't get moved around on the road like the SUV did.


So either go for an aluminum boat OR sacrifice space and go down to a 17-18' fiberglass bowrider OR look at a package deal with a pickup and larger fiberglass bowrider.

 

[kpg7121]

Your looking for the boat I bought in 1997 I still own it and it might be worth more than I paid for it when it was 6 months used
1996 19.6 4.3 Mercruiser Spectrum welded aluminum boat if you didn’t know you would think it is fiberglass Deep V takes big waves better than anything I’ve ever been in its class will run over 50 ( 54 actually) with 6 big fat adults and lots of beer ok ski boat by that it makes a wake but it will pull a skier well. Excellent fuel range per gallon under 4000 pounds including the trailer.

Issues you will have in finding one, its now 20 some years old short production I think they made some form of them through 2001 and all of them need a complete interior restoration and it is a huge task. I have beat my boat like a pair of red headed step children and often and it is still solid. I only responded because this is literally the boat your looking for not some of one or the other it will do everything you want. I run mine in some seriously rough water loaded with big men. Was pulled over by the Sheriff with 12 people on board he inspected every single thing one could think of because he wanted to give me a ticket. Handed me back my papers and wished us a fun day on the river. Glad he didn’t weigh us Ive read some negative views on its thin hull dont beach it on rocks it’s not some river sled with a 1/4 hull.

If you could find one of these in good condition it would be the boat you are looking for.

A 19 ftr with 12 people on board. Priceless.

 

[trilerian]

I'll chime in on the tow vehicle portion....

It's not the engine per se, although its part of it, its more the wheelbase of the vehicle. It's small. Let me give you a real world example using one of the boats in my signature - my '05 Four Winns 200Le (which coincidentally would sorta fit your requirements but is near/above your tow rating)...

The '05 Four Winns 200Le was listed dry at 3600lbs and it sat on a tandem axle trailer (probably another 1000lbs). I routinely towed it with my pickup at the time which was a Toyota Tundra 5.7Lv8 rated to tow 10k. It was back there but you didn't get moved by it at all. It was a good solid tow. I had to have the trailer serviced and for giggles decided to use my wife's 2016 GMC Acadia SLE2 which was rated at 5k towing - very similar wheelbase to your Jeep (and the one you're considering). On the way home it was white knuckle driving as that trailer moved that SUV all over the road. And you could definitely tell it was back there as that vehicle struggled mightily on hills. In retrospect I never, ever, should have towed that boat with this vehicle and instead should have used my pickup.

Why? Wheelbase! It's a wider and longer vehicle so it doesn't get moved around on the road like the SUV did.


So either go for an aluminum boat OR sacrifice space and go down to a 17-18' fiberglass bowrider OR look at a package deal with a pickup and larger fiberglass bowrider.

So, funny story. The wife and I went down to the Jeep dealership on Saturday just to have a look at the Grand Cherokee. She didn't like it one bit, and since she drives the Jeep, well that means that there will be no upgrade anyway. Me, I drive a bimmer, and I love it! But it will not pull anything... Now, we have been talking about buying a truck, just to have a truck for when we need it. So we may go down that route and buy a used truck.

@nitsuj
I used the word "investment" and that was the wrong word to use. Really what I mean is justification. If I use the boat 3 out of 4 weekends a month through the summer for 3-5 years, then I believe I can justify to myself spending more money on a better boat. But if we buy the boat then only use it a couple of times, really, what's the point? While my wife and I make decent enough money, we are not well off enough that we wouldn't have to make sacrifices somewhere to buy a boat. Add to that however that I am not getting any younger, and I am really not sure how many more years my body will be able to handle watersports. In 5 years I may just want something to go out on Lake Michigan with, and say good bye to the younger antics.

So with all that said, what would be the minimum amount needed to get into a decent enough wake board boat? 20-30k?

 

[wahlejim]

Start looking at marinas, websites, craigslist, FB marketplace, iboats, etc in your area to see what the market is. Around where I live, 30k gets you a 10 year old entry level Moomba. It goes up from there