legal or ethical ?

[SS MAYFLOAT]

A friend that I have known for over 20 years is having problems with his ex over their child. The child is 5, mother in her late 30's, and he is 43. This is his only child and it is her 2nd. Her first is now 22, doesn't work, gets government aid because she can't work due to panic attacks from being around people. Her mother was more of friend instead of a mother and has not taught her the neccessities of life.<br /><br />Now my friend does not want his child to turn out like his ex's first born. When the child is in his custody during visitation, she calls the child between 5 and 10 times a day. Plus their are other details that I don't want to disclose.<br /><br />His ex gets extra money for daycare only if she works. She works just enough to keep the money flowing, but quits within a month or two. She has student loans with not intentions of paying back. She looks for any free government aid to help support her. <br /><br />My main question is that I wish to write a letter to the Judge over at the Juvenille Justice Center concerning my friends case. I just would like the judge to know more than the 15 minuets the social worker takes to evaluate this case. <br /><br />Would it be wrong for me to write a letter to the Judge or not?<br /><br />Thanks for any input. My friend is about to lose his house due to the amount of support he has to pay because his ex refuses to support herself. He wants to pay support for his daughter, but it is not fair when his support supports his ex as well. She lives off of what she gets from him.

 

[alden135]

Re: legal or ethical ?

Standing up for what is right is always ethical.<br /><br />Your friend needs an attorney.

 

[ZooMbr]

Re: legal or ethical ?

SS I wrote a letter to a judge concerning a mother and her child who lived in the same apt complex as I. She broke up with her boyfriend, not the father of the child, and he filed suite to get custody of the child. Power/control ploy. I learned about it from a mutual friend in the complex. Talked to the mother - make story short; wrote letter describing my observations of how she and her child interacted at the apt complex and where I had seen her at the store.<br /><br />Having raised 6 kids I feel my observations of parent/child interactions are good.<br /><br />I had moved out of state (from Calif. to CO.) before the case came up. Did get a nice letter thanking me and her comments said the letter had high value to the judge as all other parties were prejudiced for one side or the other: His efforts failed.<br /><br />I do believe in checking before interfering -- discuss it with your friend; and, document your observations. The better documented the more impact.

 

[20/20]

Re: legal or ethical ?

I would say if it doesn't involve you then stay out of it. If your friend wants help then maybe get involved, but be very carefull these things sometimes have away of ruining friendship. This sounds more like a case that needs to be handled by those involved. This may sound harsh, but your friend made his bed and layed in it, now he has to figure out how to straighten up the sheets.

 

[K Hultgre]

Re: legal or ethical ?

Lawyer: "Yes" one familiar with child custody.<br /><br />Has the Social Services paid a visit to the mothers dwelling to see what kind of enviroment the child is living in?<br />Child custody, IMHO is still biased towards the mother and your friend has an uphill battle so writing a letter would certainly help.<br />

I do believe in checking before interfering -- discuss it with your friend; and, document your observations. The better documented the more impact.

Agreed.

 

[CJY]

Re: legal or ethical ?

If you believe it is in the child's best interest, then write the letter. If someone gets upset because of the letter, so be it. The key here is that you believe it is in the child's best interests, and only the childs.<br /><br />John

 

[tomatolord]

Re: legal or ethical ?

Document - put what you know in writing but only if YOU observe it dont rely on him telling you.<br /><br />however your friend is in for another 13 years of fighting with those women and remember she is an expert at dodging <br /><br />As far as the phone calls in my house my children do not answer the phone - or get caller id so he knows she is calling.<br /><br />All he can do at this point is be there for his kid - he may have to sell his house, get 2 jobs to pay off his 13 year loan, because that is what he has.<br /><br />The other thing is to find out at what age the child can make the choice of gaurdian - so that when the kid can make the choice he chooses the dad and not the mom.<br /><br />If dad drags himself down into the poor house with bad credit etc the kid wont want to go with him when the time comes..

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: legal or ethical ?

We talked about me writting a letter to the judge. This man has worked hard for what he has. He isn't a pot head, not a drunk, has excellent credit, and excellent employment record.<br /><br />Her on the other hand has moved many many times, very many jobs with none over a year at one place.<br />I knew her before they got married. Myself and others told him that because she is pregnant, not to marry her. She is mad at him because she wants him to pay for all her baggage that she brought with her. Even before their marriage, myself and others knew she was looking for a sugar daddy.<br /><br />My concern is that there are enough free loaders in this country and I hate to see another one raised by this womans standards.<br /><br />One incident while on vacation really embarassed my friend. He took his 5 year old to the bath house to go potty. She is inside and starts screaming for her dad to go into the ladies side to wipe her bottom. This is where I feel that his ex shows that she is not doing her job as a mother. This is probably the main reason she will not get her started into preschool because mom wipes her bottom for her instead of making her do it herself. Mom is being a friend and giving the child what the child wants. Not the way to raise a child.<br /><br />I have 2 children. I may have not been the best, but they are on their own without support from me or my ex. Now when they call me it is how are you dad, not I need money or need this and that. They are actually interested in how I'm doing.<br /><br />BTW he does have an attorney. Surpose to be the best in the area but he is semi retired.

 

[oddjob]

Re: legal or ethical ?

I just got divorced a year ago under similar circumstances. I have my house and custody of my two boys minus half of everything( I bought her out ). Because I spent 5 years documenting everything from the rehabs to the daily BS, I had enough evidence to bluff her into this result though mediation. <br /><br />I have to pay her 300$ per month in allimony for five years. My laywer and the mediater pleaded with me to take the deal because even though I had her dead to rights a judge in broward co. would except easily the idea from her attorney that all of her problems are the result of me somehow abusing her emotionally etc. Then she would have the house, my poor sons and all or my savings.<br /><br />Please write the letter for the sake of the children.<br /><br />Now, everyone is asking why did you wait so long? "for the sake of the children".<br /><br />BTW 12 is the age I believe a child has the right to choose which parent. Good luck.

 

[PW2]

Re: legal or ethical ?

Your friend needs a good attorney. And lots of money if he is going to fight a custody decree.<br /><br />It won't be handled in juvenile justice court.<br /><br />If you feel compelled to write the letter, go ahead, but only deal in specific circumstances and actions that you have first hand knowldge of, and no mention of the other child.<br /><br />Divorce is always difficult for all parties involved, but a judge is not likely to reverse a custody decision unless there is clear and compelling reasons why he should. Relative skill at child rearing is not clear nor is it a compelling reason.<br /><br />The judge will not listen, nor do they care a whit, about any financial harship on the non-custodial parent. They've heard every sob story in the book, and they've heard chapter and verse countless times about how the money has been mishandled and they simply will not go down that road.<br /><br />Take it from someone who knows. Convince your friend that when he sends the child support check, he needs to pretend he just took the money and dropped it off a cliff in the ocean, never to be seen again. And then learn to accept it.<br /><br />In my case, I managed to maintain a great relationship with my kids--still do have--my youngest decided to move in with me at 12, and my ex had to pay me support. Her first check she sent me is still hanging on my office wall framed and uncashed!<br /><br />both kids graduated from University and are doing great.<br /><br />The long and the short of it is he can fight it if he wishes, but he better have a dang strong case if he expects to prevail. Chances are he'd be better off accepting it and concentrating on maintaining his relationship with his child, but only he can answer that.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: legal or ethical ?

Very thin ice. I am with PW2 you better have eyewitnessed and observed all aspects of every situation you write about. Anything less would be unethical. In our zeal to make everything 'fair' we have made things terribly unfair. We all know it. Be careful to write dispassionately and factually to enhance your credibility. Avoid absolute terms like "best" or "worst" and provide concise, yet detailed accounts of only what you observed first hand.<br /><br />Tough one. With the decision to write this letter comes some responsibility for the outcome. Good luck with your quandry.

 

[wilkin250r]

Re: legal or ethical ?

I have seen a similar sitution from the driver's seat. I am the father, my ex cannot hold a job, and I have no desire to see my daughter turn out like her mother. My custody battle is still ongoing, Here are some observations I have seen:<br /><br />PW2 is dead-on right. The judge does not care about financial burden of the non-custodial parent. Likewise, they do not care to hear any complaints about "how the money is spent". The support has been ordered, pay it and shut up, unless you have direct proof of fraud.<br /><br />A "friend instead of a mother" arguement has no bearing in court. The child is not neglected, nor in danger, by her mother wiping her bottom. If the child's needs are being met, whether the parent takes the child to private tutoring or lets her play video games, it's all the same to the judge.<br /><br />Your friend can easily limit phone calls. He can get himself in hot water if he restricts contact too much, but can easily limit phone calls to one per day. No judge in the world would say that only one call per day is "too restrictive". This can also work in your friend's favor. If the mother complains that she isn't afforded enough free contact, the judge will take that as a very serious issue. When the judge then finds out (because it will be AFTER the complaint) that the mother gets one phone call every day (which is plenty of free contact) she will automatically be seen as the aggrivator, and the first impression of any subsequent complaints will not be favorable.<br /><br />A letter from you can do help or harm, but largely in favor of help. The judge is in a very difficult position, and must make a character judgement between two people. As such, a character reference can be helpful. However, to be most effective, you want to avoid bashing the other parent. You want to concentrate on your friend's positive qualities, rather than the mother's negative qualities. Also, don't bring up ANY situations that you have not witnessed personally, or have direct evidence of.

 

[crab bait]

Re: legal or ethical ?

the judge will take it with a grain of salt.. but a grain is all that's mite be needed to tip the scales.. <br /><br />an also,, maybe/if'n he gets multiple letters from different people sayin' about the same things.........<br /><br />there's a old work partner of mine.. married-4 kids.. him an his brothers built a beautiful house after work an weekends.. <br /><br />few years,, divorce.. she got the kids & house.. <br /><br />5 years pass.. he meets a lady with 3 kids.. they marry.. she talks him into adopting the kids.. ( since we're a family now).. <br /><br />not long after,, divorce... <br /><br />now he's got 7 kids for child support..

 

[Homerr]

Re: legal or ethical ?

Yes, attorney for sure and tell your friend to DOCUMENT EVERYTHING.<br />It may really be a hassle and seem insignificant, but it may help in the end.<br /><br />In Oregon (and I suspect other states) you have to prove the mother is unfit to have custody.<br />A very difficult battle. And YES, the system 9 times out of 10 will rule in the Mother's side.<br /><br />I fought for a couple of years through mediation and DOCUMENTATION that finally proved my ex was a lying POS. She finally just gave up cause she knew I would bury her in court.<br /><br />I often thought of writing a book on my ordeal some day because my case was an almost impossible one to win... But I did.<br /><br />I would document PERSONALLY everything you see that is unfit for the kids. Who cares about her. You are trying to prove the situation is unfit for the kids. Set everything else aside.<br /><br />If I were him, I'd sell the house asap. That's his biggest credit rating right now, and the biggest pain in the neck (besides his ex) <br />The last thing he needs is to have his credit ruined. His life is already a mess. Try to recover some of it.<br /><br />And tell him to watch his lawyer. You have to remember that they want the all mighty dollar, and custody cases are a huge money-maker. They are your kids after-all... How much would you spend to fight for them....?<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />EVERYTHING<br /><br /><br />H.

 

[crab bait]

Re: legal or ethical ?

i miss my ex... but my aim's gettin' better

 

[Link]

Re: legal or ethical ?

Originally posted by crab bait:<br /> i miss my ex... but my aim's gettin' better

ROFLOL <br />Pretty much in agreement with Plywoody on this one. To bad that the only ones that win are the stinking Slimys... ruff road ahead of your friend.<br />And even worse for the kid.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: legal or ethical ?

His parents have been documenting things that they know have been lies by his ex. I have documented several things as well. This womans family is all strange. They are one of those families where mom and dad worked and gave everything to the kids without them earning it. Maybe her being a true bleached blond is the key to this whole problem. No offense intended Ladyfish!<br /><br />Right now she is trying everything she can to prove my friend is not being a good parent. She took the child to the hospital and said her ex kept her out in the sun all day. (She was going solely on what the 5yo told her). Hospital said they didn't see any burning or dehydration and that the child was in good health. Then the girl got sick two days into my friends vacation. The ex blamed it on taking her camping. The doctors said she had a viral infection that would have be picked up days before my friends vacation. However it is stuck in her mind that he caused her illness.<br /><br />I agree with most here that he needs to stop feeding the attorneys, sell out, or get a new house mate to share house expenses. <br /><br />I told him with his good nature, that his child will see who is doing best in life when she gets older. No matter what you tell your children, they will do what you do regardless on your verbal teachings. Actions speak louder than words it seems.

 

[SuzukiChopper]

Re: legal or ethical ?

As an outsider bearing witness to what my cousin went through, it's a tough battle even with letters. The parents of my cousin's EX even wrote letters to the judge explaining that their daughter wasn't fit to be the mother of the child and that my cousin should have sole custody. He still lost that battle. <br /><br />He got his visitation rights, but she moved out of province, making it more difficult for him to get his visitation, she had another child out of wed-lock, and then proceeded to marry the father (an air line pilot who's never home non-the-less), while she stayed at home and lavished gifts on her and my cousin's daughter (3 or 4 at the time, with her now husband's money) to make the persuade the kid. She even had the odasity to dye their kids hair a bright red.<br /><br />My cousin, then finsihed law school, became a lawyer, and with this new knowledge went on to continue to fight the battle, and through child psycology visits they determined that his daughter wanted to be with him and not her, the judge ignored it and he lost again. I don't know what the hell is wrong with the "system" but it ALWAYS seems that unless the mother is a certified nut, they always prevail.<br /><br />Long story short, GOOD LUCK WITH THE LETTER AND I HOPE IT HELPS OUT!!

 

[deputydawg]

Re: legal or ethical ?

Write the letter, it will make you feel better and make you feel that you have done all you could to help your friend. Don't expect much of a reply from the letter. In my experiences I have seen many reactions. If the case is fresh on the judges mind it may make a difference. It would just depend on the judge, and the courts case load. Here most letters go into the trash for lack of foundation. The judge looks at them, but can not use them unless one party has introduced them as evidence. Can't really introduce them unless they can prove what has been written. Can't prove what is written without the other half given the option to cross examine the scource. But then again, it might help.<br />Write the letter then wait a few days to send it. Before mailing ask yourself, are you doing this for the child, for the friend or for yourself. Either way it can't hurt his case. Unless you stray from facts or stray from things you can prove and be prepared it probably won't help. Judges can't take personal notice of cases, and can't take heresay information as evidence.