leaking oil lower unit question

[mcarlito]

My boat is only 14ft. but for myself and my two sons, it's the best. It's a 63 Crestliner with a 65 johnson 60hp super sea horse. Trying to find out if its electric shift or hydro electric shift?<br />If anyone can help, please. We just bought it and put engine in tub and started it up. Top end sounds good, needed a little starter fluid to get it going then alls fine. The lower unit is another matter. Oil is leaking out of lower unit located in the upper collar seams? Hope that doesn't sound confusing. We removed the gear case drain screw and pure water was coming out and a milky oil/water mixture followed. I think I two problems here but would like some input. This site is great and any help would be great. My 14 year old son and I are looking to get our hands dirty for the winter months so that next spring and summer we will be a fishing and sking.<br />Thanks so much.

 

[petrolhead]

Re: leaking oil lower unit question

Usual advice for the water problem is to replace the drain/fill washers first and see if that helps, if not it has to be seals.<br />The leaking oil sounds like unburned 2 stroke leaking from the bottom of the leg which is pretty normal, smell some, if it smells of petrol then it's probably nothing to worry about unless it's excessive.<br />There is no gasket where the leg meets the top flange of the lower unit, so any water or oil in the leg is free to seep out.

 

[mcarlito]

Re: leaking oil lower unit question

To petrolhead,<br />Thanks for the swift input. Let's say that the leaking oil is excessive!! What does that mean? What should I do about it? <br /><br />I'm trying to figure out if the motor is electric shift or manual? Can you help me out?<br /><br />Thank you for your kind help.<br />myhugeboat

 

[Johnathan]

Re: leaking oil lower unit question

Originally posted by myhugeboat:<br /> My boat is only 14ft. but for myself and my two sons, it's the best. It's a 63 Crestliner with a 65 johnson 60hp super sea horse. Trying to find out if its electric shift or hydro electric shift?<br />If anyone can help, please. We just bought it and put engine in tub and started it up. Top end sounds good, needed a little starter fluid to get it going then alls fine. The lower unit is another matter. Oil is leaking out of lower unit located in the upper collar seams? Hope that doesn't sound confusing. We removed the gear case drain screw and pure water was coming out and a milky oil/water mixture followed. I think I two problems here but would like some input. This site is great and any help would be great. My 14 year old son and I are looking to get our hands dirty for the winter months so that next spring and summer we will be a fishing and sking.<br />Thanks so much.

I have a simular problem with my '56 rude, I filled my LU with oil prior to testing it as it had been setting for several years, after running it I didn't have ? oil leakage (well come to think of it there was some oil scum in the barrel) but when I checked the oil level I found tannish oil mixture which I thought would be water, my grandson (smart 11 year old mechanic) decided to drain it yesterday and it was really milky, yuk, yuk he says!<br /><br />I'll be getting a seal kit but I will do like Petrolhead suggested and do the fill/drain o-rings before tearing it apart, thanks for that advice.

 

[mcarlito]

Re: leaking oil lower unit question

Petrolhead,<br />Tonight we will do a pressure test to see if and what seals are leaking. The fill washers are fine so it's on to the next step. Is there a seal kit for the lower end? or do I get individual parts for what I need?<br />thank you again.

 

[petrolhead]

Re: leaking oil lower unit question

You can buy the seals individually, but while it's off why not replace them all, they are cheap enough and fairly easy to do, one less source of trouble in future.

 

[BF]

Re: leaking oil lower unit question

it sounds like you're on track to find the lower unit leak... just a couple of points of advice... <br /><br />1) Don't use starter fluid in a 2 stroke motor. It has no lube in it (actually washs the oil off the internals) and can cause damage quickly... if you need to shoot something in the carb to start, use some gas/oil pre-mix, like the motor runs on normally. Maybe the starter fluid is why a lot of sludgy/oilish stuff came out of the exhaust (?).<br /><br />2) Don't test "top end" rpm's in a test barrel unless you can somehow put load on the engine (e.g. using a "test wheel" in gear). Rev'ing a motor in neutral much above a fast idle also can cause bad things to happen, and doesn't really tell you how the engine will run under load anyway.<br /><br />3) a service manual would definately come in handy for you. Pictures are a great addition to the help you can find here.<br /><br />4) with any new-to-me motor, I'd check compression first (tells me if there's any major internal thing wrong) and service the water pump (for sure replace impeller, maybe whole pump) before using it much. Boats/motors that get sold tend to be ones that haven't had recent maintenance. You'll have the lower unit off anyway, so service the pump for sure.<br /><br />sounds like a great project... good luck.

 

[mcarlito]

Re: leaking oil lower unit question

Thank to all,<br />My son and just came in from performing the compression test. Here is what we found. The lower end was attached because I was hoping that it would be the rear prop seal. That turns out to be good. We heard air coming form inside the stem so off the lower end came. We put compressed air (no more then 3PSI) and we saw air bubbles coming from the shift lever seal. I hope it was ok to use soapy water?? Question, I don't know what to do next. I received great advise from all of you. should I just take this lower end apart and rework it?? The drive seal appears to be OK. The fill screw caps seeem OK. The water pump was rebuilt two years ago. When I move the drive shaft it appears to be firm and seated tightly. How am I doing so far?? Do I sound like a mechanic or what. FYI I found a lower end on line that is a 1968 65hp motor but I'm not sure it's compatibile with my 1966 60 hp? any feedback would be great and thanks for the response so far. I'm really digging it.<br />Mike

 

[BF]

Re: leaking oil lower unit question

Hi again... <br /><br />I'm sure some will say you should re-seal the whole lower unit (and be done with it), but I'd be inclined just to change the shift lever seal and redo the pressure test (shops normally use 10 psi). Maybe another seal will leak, but maybe not. At least it might let you test the boat out for a while and you can do all the lower unit seals over the winter... just check the lower unit lube often to make sure it's not a milkshake.<br /><br />I don't see why you'd need a new lower unit... fix the leak and see how it works on the water. If you go for a ride and afterwards there are filings in the lower unit oil, then consider a new one.<br /><br />Oh, and by the way when I said that I'd also check compression (in my post above) I meant engine compression, not a lower unit pressure test (which is what you did).... those are 2 different kettles of fish. For me, engine compression comes before spending any time or $$$, because if a piston/ring is bad, or the engine is just plain worn out, then I'm not gonna start fixing other stuff.<br /><br />don't get me wrong, pressurizing the lower unit was the right thing to do, but you probably wanna check the engine compression too.<br /><br />good luck (again)

 

[mcarlito]

Re: leaking oil lower unit question

Hello I'm back,<br />It's been a great weekend and my son and I have learned quite a lot. Let me start by telling you the follow up to the lower end experience. We ended up taking the lower unit to a person that works on only old outboards. He looked over the entire low end and gave us a good report. Told us to buy a seal kit and do it, not a hard thing to do. I also purchased a impeller for the water pump because he found that it was worn. My question is how do I remove the shifter lever seal. Do I need a special tool??? He told me that I need to make a special tool to remove the seal but he didn't tell me how to remove the seal. Can anyone help on this one?<br />I'm getting the kit from NAPA this Wednesday then we'll take it from there.<br />Also we did an engine compression test this morning and this is what we got for each cyl. #1= 95psi, #2=95psi, #3=100psi and #4= 95psi. What do you think of these numbers????<br />Again thanks to all for your input.<br />Mike and son Zach

 

[BF]

Re: leaking oil lower unit question

Hey Mike (& Zach)...<br /><br />First, I find it great to hear that you've had a "great weekend" working together on your new project... Probably something you'll both remember and talk about for years to come. Congrat's Dad on doin' the father/son thing! If this is fun, wait 'til you start catching fish & skiing.<br /><br />The engine compression numbers are good news. The evenness is more important the actual number (unless they were 70 psi or something). Yours show good and even compression, if you used a different gauge they could well read a little higher. (or if the engine was warmed up)<br /><br />I can't help you with the special tool thing. But this is where a service manual is huge. In the seloc manual for my Merc they had pict's of the "special tools" and some guy actually doing disassembly. So I was able to get an idea of what what the tool was suppossed to do. For example, on mine the shifter bushing thing needed to be unscrewed using a big slotted thing that had to fit around the shift rod. I think the special tool looked like a funky deep socket that slid over the shift shaft... but I got the job done by making a different tool, creative grinding of a cheap flat pry bar. Probably different than what you need, but at least I knew how the piece was suppossed to come out, and I improvised.<br /><br />Trust me, a manual will pay for itself over and over! I'm just a home garage do-it-yourselfer too!<br /><br />Good luck & keep it fun.<br /><br />Brent

 

[mcarlito]

Re: leaking oil lower unit question

Thanks BF for your supportive feedback. Yup, the bonding thing is priceless, I wouldn't do it any other way.<br />You know I have a manual but it's not specificly for that year motor. It give me a general view of what I need to do. Can anyone recommend a good manual for a 1966 Johnson 60hp?<br />One other thing, the past owner told me that the motor would bog down when he put into gear. I was told that on this year engine, the carbs (2 barrel) had no high speed jets, but there is a 7/16" bolt in front of the carb that you can remove, run a guitar string (.030) and carb cleaner and that will usually fix the problem. I'm posting this to let you and others know that. Hope that helps. It's always good to give back when you can.<br /><br />thanks again<br />Mike and Zach

 

[55Crestliner]

Re: leaking oil lower unit question

On removing the shift lever bushing - <br />This may be different on your engine, and I'm sorry if it is, but my guess is that it's the same. My engines are a '55 and a '57.<br /><br />The bushing is actually an O-ring, held in place with a brass bushing that's pressed in. I used a bolt, about 3 inches long, (length doesn't matter much, but the longer the easier to insert) <br />1/4 20, and ground down the hex head untill it was round, and it is just barely larger diameter than the shaft of the bolt. It needs to fit inside the aluminum casting, but be large enough to make contact with the bushing. There is a very fine line between too big and too small so grind carefully and check your progress often.<br /><br />After it fits, use some sort of a punch (or a phillips screw driver) to tap at the tool you just made. I've used mine twice on both motors, and it works very well. <br /><br />Again, hope yours is the same.

 

[mcarlito]

Re: leaking oil lower unit question

Thanks 55Crestliner,<br />I'll be trying you suggestion. Your description is very Similar to the shift lever bushing I have on my '66 johnson. I assume I am approaching the removal of the bushing from the inside out?? Is this correct??<br />thanks again<br />Mike and Zach

 

[petrolhead]

Re: leaking oil lower unit question

If the bushing is the press in type the correct tool is a tapered punch, easy to make from a length of mild steel, brass, or aluminium rod. I used aluminium to avoid damaging the bush (aluminium being softer), the small end of the taper should just pass through the hole in the bush, the main diameter of the rod needs to fit through the hole in the casting underneath the bush.<br />You turn the unit upside-down, insert the punch, and give it a good whack with a hammer, the bush should just pop out. Insertion is just a reversal of removal, use a good smear of grease to make it easier and to lube the new o-ring seal.

 

[mcarlito]

Re: leaking oil lower unit question

Thanks petrolhead,<br />I will take into account that the bushing is brass (softer metal) and move forward on this. thanks<br />Mike and Zach

 

[mcarlito]

Re: leaking oil lower unit question

 

[mcarlito]

Re: leaking oil lower unit question

Petrolhead,<br />Let me make this short. I put my son to bed, went back out into the shed and got the bushing out. It looks ok. I still can't figure out why I have to remove the bushing unless I'm going to get a new one with the seal kit?, which is coming on Wednesday. I could have just inserted the new O-ring right into the old bushing w/o taking it out. But my ignorence is showing on these responses.<br />Thank u and to the rest for your support and input. I'll try not to list nonsense if I can help it.<br />Mike and Zach

 

[petrolhead]

Re: leaking oil lower unit question

How would you have taken the old O-ring out without removing the bushing though? And how would you get the new one in? There isn't room for two O-rings in there, and you'd never get the new one in without damaging it if you tried to insert it through the bushing.<br />You won't get a new bushing in your seal kit, you will get a new O-ring though.<br />There was an O-ring in there wasn't there?

 

[petrolhead]

Re: leaking oil lower unit question

Just to clarify this, the O-ring is under the bushing. The bushing itself is just a guide for the shift rod and a retainer for the O-ring.