Kenneth Brown..could you open this please

Kiwi Phil

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If my memory serves me correctly Kenneth, a couple of years back you gave me a link to a site that had a forum that delt with Dams and the management of water in them. <br />I think JB called them "Tanks" at the time.<br />I gained a lot of info from it at the time. <br />Now I have lost it. <br />Do you recall this site. <br />I have spent ages searching Google with no sucess.<br />Thanks<br />Cheers<br />Phillip
 

Dunaruna

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Re: Kenneth Brown..could you open this please

You sure JB refered to them as 'tanks'?, I thought he said 'ponds'.
 
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Re: Kenneth Brown..could you open this please

I think it depends on whether he was talking about water or scotch and water. :D Quite generally in that part of Taxes man made ponds are referred to as "tanks" the terms are really interchangeable except to the purist. Sorry I can't be of any help Mr Phil.
 

JB

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Re: Kenneth Brown..could you open this please

Scotch AND water??? What in heck is the water for?
 

Kiwi Phil

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Re: Kenneth Brown..could you open this please

Thanks Kenneth. Very much appreciated. Will ask some questions of them in near future.<br />They call them ponds. Mine is a dam.<br />James, those ones are a little larger than mine.<br />Cheers<br />Phillip
 

Link

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Re: Kenneth Brown..could you open this please

Originally posted by JB:<br /> Scotch AND water??? What in heck is the water for?
LOL I think many have asked that question! ;) <br />Glad he got the information he was looking for.
 

Kenneth Brown

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Re: Kenneth Brown..could you open this please

A dam is what we put in a hillside to hold the water, thus making a pond. They are called tanks by many here. The reasoning- Its short for stock tank. Gotta build lots of ponds hoping that a couple of them will not go dry in the summer, no water for livestock if that happens.
 

Kiwi Phil

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Re: Kenneth Brown..could you open this please

Yes, mine is in the side of a hill.<br />Thought I may as well ask the question here as well as on other site.<br />Problem: Mine leaks, has done so for maybe 8 yrs, at about the half-way mark. Leak is getting "faster" every year.<br />This time, when the leak stopped, John and me went around water line and packed down the soft clay by hand. <br />Have discovered sand under the clay for maybe 20 meters. <br />The area we live in has NO sand, just highly reactive clay. <br />I have been pumping probably 20,000Litres from it per day for my plant nursery, and have a highly efficient plumbing system that returns every drop of water not taken up by the plants back to the dam. <br />I believe my problem is : when the water returns it carries with it potting mix which has washed out of the pots. <br />Potting mix is made up of composted softwood barks and sand. <br />So I wonder if say 1 kg of this stuff being washed in to the dam every day for 12 yrs has slowly accumulated to cause my problem. The composted bark has rotted and the sand has worked its way into the wall causing a porous layer. This sand layer is in the vicinety of the return pipe. Digging it out by hand would be difficult.<br />I can't sneak a 22ton excavator along the wall any longer. too narrow, and the downward fall on the outside would turn an excavator over if it slipped.<br />So the next option is put in a plastic liner.<br />Anybody else got any other ideas.<br />I know nothing about liners... material/construction/installation/costs etc.<br />Anyone any comments?<br />Cheers<br />Phillip
 

Kenneth Brown

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Re: Kenneth Brown..could you open this please

No experiance at all with the liners as clay is something we have too much of. Why would the sand get under/behind the clay? How could that happen? Confusing for sure.
 

CN Spots

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Re: Kenneth Brown..could you open this please

If the levee/dam was constructed properly of clay, dumping sand on it would do nothing. Around here, dam failures are usually caused by one or more of the following things:<br /><br />Improper construction<br />Burrowing vermin (muskrats and the like)<br />Redneck repair jobs<br />Washout from excess rainfall<br /><br />I have heard that allowing trees to grow on a levee is a no no as well.<br /><br />We've got the Corps of Engineers here, they came out and inspected my father's pond for free. If Australia has such an organization, I'd give them a call. I've seen ponds with liners, but they were small. Sounds like painting over rust to me, without proper repair, the problem will just get worse. imho.<br /><br />spots
 

Kiwi Phil

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Re: Kenneth Brown..could you open this please

Kenneth: The water that is being returned comes through a 90mm pipe, and fair rockets out, causing a bit of a swirling motion. It seems that is spreading the sand.<br />You could be right; it shouldn't work into the wall. But there is definitely no sand in the area. Just clay.<br />CN Spots: Improper construction...could be. Vermin....could be native crayfish in it (small variety).Don't have Corps of Engineers here. Might get on to the Council Engineer who approves construction of Dams and seek advice.<br />The Civil Engineer that designed it is an office boy and dosn't make house calls. Might chase him up anyway.<br />James: Is a Crawdads a type of crayfish?<br /><br />Another strange thing: the water will fall quickly to a specific level, BUT there is no sign of moisture on the outside wall or its surrounding area.<br />Thanks for the ideas. Spent all day chewing them over.<br />Cheers<br />Phillip
 

CN Spots

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Re: Kenneth Brown..could you open this please

Crayfish, crawdads, crawfish, mudbugs, swamp lobsters etc.... all the same. I don't think they dig deep enough to pierce a dam but then again, I've never followed one in.<br /><br />Is it possible that the water is draining back into the water table through the bottom of the pond?<br /><br />spots
 

Kiwi Phil

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Re: Kenneth Brown..could you open this please

OK, rang the Engineer and these are the reasons for the failure of my Dam.<br />You were correct....it came down to poor construction. <br />The dam wall was constructed and compacted correctly, but it needed to have a layer of topsoil over it, and it was to be planted out with a mat-type grass (kikuya) and not a tuft-type grass. <br />This was not done as there is no topsoil in our area, and the grass I planted died in the drought. <br />The highly expansive clay has dried and cracked allowing what I think he termed 'pensils' which when water came back in to the dam, it allowed water to flow into the dam wall. <br />These extended over the years of the drought, giving me a steady loss of water to a specific level.<br /><br />Solution. Drain the dam, remove all silt and organic matter, allow to dry, then rebuild a watertight layer. <br />Problems: <br />the batter of the slope is steep and needs heavy equipment. <br />Access could be a problem...going over all my concrete drives at 4" thick. <br />Result...no guarantee the dam will not do similar in another drought.<br /><br />Other solution. <br />Drain, dry, smooth out with bobcat the bottom and part way (as far as is safe)up wall. Do rest of wall by hand...not actually a problem, or with mini excavator <br />Then use a membrane liner at $2.94 sq M (black polyethelene UV stabalized, .3mm thick). <br />Over the areas of the liner that are likely to get a lot of sun, cover it with a material not unlike a weed-matt, secured at top in a trench with a seam sewn in bottom to slip galv pipes through to hold the material down the bottom. Idea: to keep sun off liner, to extend liners life.<br />Have recieved sample of the liner today, and at first it appears cheaper to line dam with poly liner that carry out earthworks.<br />The poly liner will be waterproof to, and even if it needs redoing in 10-15yrs who cares.<br />Keep in mind, our drought must be in to its 6th year. I have stopped counting and don't really care to know. It has wiped out one part of my business completely.<br />Was told I am one on many dams like this at the moment.<br />Anyway, thank you for the discussion; i have learnt a lot (as I hope others have) and now have a definite plan to ponder.<br />Cheers<br />Phillip
 
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