Joe Reeves, I need your help! Anyone with Old Evinrudes help!

[Parrot6909]

Ok, here is the situation. (I have posted before, but I am getting more information as I go...) <br />Lyman Man and I both have 1968 65hp Evinrude Sport Fours...I am picking mine up this weekend, haven't paid for the boat/motor/trailer yet....The motor from my assessment is in decent overall condition considering the age. The wiring has been redone, new starter etc, all within the last 4 years. Here is the problem, the motor was stored in Sept. 2000 without being winterized and hasn't been touched (by anyone but me looking at it) in the last 2+ years. The flywheel is pretty stuck. The lower unit had no creamy texture so I am assuming the pistons are sticking......here is the problem. I have read post after post of Marvel Mystery Oil, Kerosene, Tranny Fluid, WD-40 etc to free it up....however, I talked to a local mechanic today (finally someone who sounded like he knew what he was talking about) and he told me that if the piston is frozen, even a little bit, the motor is toast. <br />After reading all the success stories out here, I was a little disheartened when hearing that. He said that since the motor (forgive me for not being completely technical here) has bearings in it and that if they get rusty, the jacket on the bearing will come off and I will likely throw a rod. Needless to say, not what I wanted to hear. He also said that the water jacket may be worn out, allowing water into the piston area, since they were made out of Cast Iron, they wear more quickly.<br />I don't know what to do. I want to try to free up the piston and save this behemoth from the wrecking pile but I don't want to be out cruising on the river, or out in the inlet leading to the Ocean and throw a rod. <br />Obviously I won't know what is wrong until I take it apart, but I am just trying to figure out if this guy is right, or if he is trying to move the inventory of one of his other motors a bit quicker....<br />Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!<br />Thanks,<br />Craig

 

[alcan]

Re: Joe Reeves, I need your help! Anyone with Old Evinrudes help!

Hi Parrot<br /> A stuck motor should be concidered junk. Why would you by a motor that dosn't run? Especialy one that is froze. Unless you know your buying junk and you know what to do with it, leave it alone. Now there is a chance this motor can be revived, somewhat. You might squirt some oil or something in there and get it loose. And yes it might run fine. It might run for the rest of your life, or it might not. Only the great motor fairy knows this. I buy junk motors. But I only pay junk prices for them. I don't expect to get more than some good used parts out of them. Once in a while I get fooled and get a good one. Remember it's not a boat till it floats and it's not a motor till it runs. If your looking to buy something that dosn't past this simple test, it's junk. I'll bet if I saw this rig the seller would have to pay me to get rid of it for him.

 

[Parrot6909]

Re: Joe Reeves, I need your help! Anyone with Old Evinrudes help!

Thats just it, the boat, motor and trailer are worth more then what she is asking, the trailer alone is worth it. <br />The boat is in great condition. The motor may not be. Its not the price that I am concerned about, but one of the things that I really liked about the setup was the old motor on the back, it looks like it just came from the factory. I understand I am not paying a ton for the motor, I am just trying to determine whether or not I should try to run this one or if the mechanic was telling me the truth that I should 86 it.

 

[alcan]

Re: Joe Reeves, I need your help! Anyone with Old Evinrudes help!

Hi Parrot<br /> Give her a go, Ya might get lucky.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Joe Reeves, I need your help! Anyone with Old Evinrudes help!

Parrot...... If you can move the flywheel ever so slightly, the bearings are not rusted, frozen, etc. That would indicate that the piston rings are stuck to the cylinder wall, hopefully simply due to sitting.<br /><br />If so, have the engine in a tilted position with the spark plugs removed, then spray penetrating oil, Marvel Mystery Oil, something, in the cylinders that may free up those pistons/rings.<br /><br />You can purchase a tool that auto mechanics use to turn the flywheel when installing a manual clutch pressure plate. This will allow you to grab the flywheel teeth to apply pressure to turn the flywheel/crankshaft in either direction.

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: Joe Reeves, I need your help! Anyone with Old Evinrudes help!

In addition to what Joe said, be sure to let the mixture sit for several days to make sure it has time to work. Then take it real slow and try to turn it by going back and forth on the rotation. Also, if it does free up, run a 25:1 mix for at least 6 Gallons of gas to provide extra lube after the initial start-up. Check the compression after you run it for a while and that should give you an idea if the Motor will provide good service in the future. Good Luck and take it SLOW.

 

[Parrot6909]

Re: Joe Reeves, I need your help! Anyone with Old Evinrudes help!

Maybe I am an idiot, but I never saw anything about this out here.....Again, new to this whole thing so help me out.....Talked to Lyman Man last night.....he asked if I had the plugs out when I tried to rotate the wheel, I didn't, I only had the caps off.....he said the compression of the engine may be whats holding it back....True? If so, smack me! Its a learning experience...

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: Joe Reeves, I need your help! Anyone with Old Evinrudes help!

Parrot,<br />Definitly take the plugs out and put some oil(TCW-3) in there and see if you can rotate it!

 

[Parrot6909]

Re: Joe Reeves, I need your help! Anyone with Old Evinrudes help!

I didn't even think about that being the problem, I just disconnected the plug wires so i didn't tear off my hand.... Shouldn't it still move fairly freely with the plugs in? I am going to try the oil this weekend....<br />Thanks!

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Joe Reeves, I need your help! Anyone with Old Evinrudes help!

Parrot, I have a 115hp that I can turn by hand with plugs in it so yes you should still be able to turn it with the plugs in it.<br />As stated above if you can turn the flywheel any at all, then you should put some lube in it and let it sit and see what happens.<br />The rings will stick, especially in one that has been sitting that long without being winterized. If from nothing else, the gum/varnish buildup in the gas in the cylinder.

 

[SCO]

Re: Joe Reeves, I need your help! Anyone with Old Evinrudes help!

Even with the the piston stuck, the flywheel should have some play as Joe says from connecting rods etc that will allow some rotation of the flywheel. If the flywheel feels welded in place you might have a bigger problem. With the plugs in it feels like you are turning the flywheel against a spring, but you can move it. There can be play in the flywheel from the key that attaches the flywheel to the crankshaft so check to see if the crankshaft itself(has a dimple on it, centered on the flywheel)rotates at all or if it seems welded in place and let us know.

 

[Parrot6909]

Re: Joe Reeves, I need your help! Anyone with Old Evinrudes help!

It feels like you are pushing against something hard, almost like its spring loaded. I could move it with one hand applying a lot of pressure (I am 6'3" and 230) so when I say a lot, i mean a lot. I could move it about 3" at a time, give or take......

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: Joe Reeves, I need your help! Anyone with Old Evinrudes help!

Parrot,<br />Pull the plugs and put a little oil in each cylinder and see if it turns easier. If it turns "freely", then it's just compression making it hard to turn. If it turns at all, you are way ahead of the game! Let us know.

 

[SCO]

Re: Joe Reeves, I need your help! Anyone with Old Evinrudes help!

I cant turn the flywheel of my motor past top dead center of a piston by hand. I'd take the plugs out, put it in neutral in case the propeller is stuck in a 1 in a million scenario and then see if it will turn. My motor will not crank without a good battery. It takes some juice to get over that first TDC. That "whump" does not mean the engine is frozen. The spark plug wrench for my motor is the same as for my car, so take a spark plug wrench with you and a jumper cable for the battery and some wd40. The boat battery will be dead/weak if it wasn't maintained. <br /><br />What was it that led you to conclude that the crankshaft was frozen? Are you sure about that? Might just be good compression and bad battery.<br />BTW, dont crank the plugs back in like you would on a car. It is easy to strip threads. They should be torqued to specification. I'd just carefully put the plugs back to a little over hand tight to get it home and get a torque wrench and service manual for the engine before you run it.

 

[Parrot6909]

Re: Joe Reeves, I need your help! Anyone with Old Evinrudes help!

I have the tools and the original service manual for the boat. Hopefully it will free up a bit this weekend, won't know if she runs or not for a bit, its 5 degrees here today, time to move to a warmer climate.

 

[ledgefinder]

Re: Joe Reeves, I need your help! Anyone with Old Evinrudes help!

Parrot, are you saying you can rotate the flywheel 3"? If so, that's not a siezed piston...<br />You should be able to turn it through top dead center of compression, at least if you use both hands. Sure you're prop isn't hitting something?<br /><br />Is that motor electric shift? I have a 1971 OMC 125 hydro-electric shift that does something wierd like that when the ignition's off. I can't remember exactly what it does, but I do know that I can not turn the motor freely in both directions when the ignition's off. (Partly explained by the fact that the hydro-electric units go into gear when you turn the ignition off.) I'm not sure if the lower unit on your motor is electric, hydro-electric, or mechanical<br /><br />While your messing with it, be advised it's generally considered bad form to turn an outboard motor backwards (the flywheel). The water pump vanes can get flipped around going the other way, and if they're old, crack.

 

[Parrot6909]

Re: Joe Reeves, I need your help! Anyone with Old Evinrudes help!

It is a mechanical shift.....I was able to move it about 3" with both hands....the batter on the boat is dead so I didn't try to start it (plus no water....) The prop moved freely, I am going to try pulling the plugs and see what happens. Once the plugs are out if the piston is at the top, that should release the pressure and let me know how bad or good the situation is correct?

 

[ledgefinder]

Re: Joe Reeves, I need your help! Anyone with Old Evinrudes help!

You can also wind a rope around the groove in the flywheel & pull it over by hand - that is, you don't need a battery to turn it over several revolutions. Plus the rope'll give you better leverage. You should be able to turn it over with the plugs in, but pulling them out isn't going to hurt anything.

 

[Parrot6909]

Re: Joe Reeves, I need your help! Anyone with Old Evinrudes help!

It has the emergency starter rope (factory standard) under the engine cover.....would that be sufficient? I am going to try to take the plugs out, see if it turns any easier, and put some mystery oil in it.....fingers crossed!