Jet fighter, Phoenix or fairytail?

[rbh]

So watching the news show this morning when an article comes on describing how there "could" be a possible reincarnation of a jet fighter Canada developed back in the 1950s.
As the story went the F35 just ain't what we need up here, its more attack than fighter intercepter,
So a company went back in time persay and pulled out (gathered) the prints for the Avro Arrow.
This jet fighter intercepter from the 1950's was desighned for the requirements of Canada then and now.

So if this came into reproduction about the only things that would change from the origanal would be electronics, weapons platforms and use of newer composite materials.

This aircraft was the first with fly by wire technology, could fly from Seattle to Chicago without refueling.
Now for some hearsay if the planes had been outfited with the origanal spect engines (if they had been built in time) was the only plane besides the sr71 (first model) that could reach it operating ceiling of 53 000 (75 000 in desighn) ft, would have been able to intercept the sr71
(REMEMBER THIS PLANE WAS DEVELOPED AND BUILT IN THE 1950'S)

check out the wiki article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_CF-105_Arrow#Specifications_.28Arrow_Mk_1.29




So is this a possible Phoenix or Fairytail??

 

[Moody Blue]

Re: Jet fighter, Phoenix or fairytail?

Bordeau industries (sp?) is the company that proposed the idea. The government formally rejected the idea about two months ago saying that the time frame to develop the new airframe, avionics and weapons systems (to present specifications) would be unattainable. On paper, the Avro would still be superior (speed, maneuverability, operating ceiling and range) and would cost much less to build and maintain than the proposed F-35.

Full story here
http://www.globaltoronto.com/feds+reject+bid+to+revive+avro+arrow/6442711404/story.html

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Jet fighter, Phoenix or fairytail?

Bordeau industries (sp?) is the company that proposed the idea. The government formally rejected the idea about two months ago saying that the time frame to develop the new airframe, avionics and weapons systems (to present specifications) would be unattainable. On paper, the Avro would still be superior (speed, maneuverability, operating ceiling and range) and would cost much less to build and maintain than the proposed F-35.

Full story here
http://www.globaltoronto.com/feds+reject+bid+to+revive+avro+arrow/6442711404/story.html

We don't need the F-35 either.Way to much money. When they get the oxygen problems worked out in the Raptor that will be one bad plane

 

[joed]

Re: Jet fighter, Phoenix or fairytail?

Now for some hearsay if the planes had been outfited with the origanal spect engines (if they had been built in time) was the only plane besides the sr71 (first model) that could reach it operating ceiling of 53 000 (75 000 in desighn) ft, would have been able to intercept the sr71
(REMEMBER THIS PLANE WAS DEVELOPED AND BUILT IN THE 1950'S)

And that is one of the reasons the USA convinced/blackmailed the Canadian government in killing it and buying US made Bomark missiles.

 

[nwcove]

Re: Jet fighter, Phoenix or fairytail?

10..9...8...7......this thread is gettin close to suffering the same fate as the arrow!!! ERASED! LOL

 

[rbh]

Re: Jet fighter, Phoenix or fairytail?

And that is one of the reasons the USA convinced/blackmailed the Canadian government in killing it and buying US made Bomark missiles.

Really, you had to go there, UGH!!

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Jet fighter, Phoenix or fairytail?

Really, you had to go there, UGH!!

Oh i think we can take a few jabs from the upnorth guy's with a twinkle in the eye..The day Canada and the US start bashing each other is the day I will start going postal...

 

[kfa4303]

Re: Jet fighter, Phoenix or fairytail?

Shoot, the idea of a manned vehicle at all is rather passe at this point. The human is the great limiting factor in all modern designs. It's gonna be drones, drones and more drones from here on out, for better of worse. They're cheaper, faster, smaller, sneakier, more invisiblerer (?) to radar, etc.... and no families to visit when/if things go wrong. Of course, it's not only limited to aircraft. All transportation is becoming more automated. Most commercial flights barely need a pilot. Lots of new cars will break, decelerate, wake you up if you swerve and even park for you automatically. I think CA just approved automated/robotic/unmanned vehicles for use on open road...(GULP)(who's at fault if it hits you, or vise versa?), Google has been working on a robot car, and I know they've been wanting to do a similar thing in Australia for the super-mega long haulers. All hail our new robot overlords!

btw, when they do make the next great Canadian fighter they gotta call it the Wolverine, right eh?

 

[nwcove]

Re: Jet fighter, Phoenix or fairytail?

quote:"btw, when they do make the next great Canadian fighter they gotta call it the Wolverine, right eh?"......i think we will call it the "buffalo 1.0".....it will be very stealthy with its silent rubber band launch system, and invisible to radar, beaver pelt covered fuselage!!

 

[mommicked]

Re: Jet fighter, Phoenix or fairytail?

quote:"btw, when they do make the next great Canadian fighter they gotta call it the Wolverine, right eh?"......i think we will call it the "buffalo 1.0".....it will be very stealthy with its silent rubber band launch system, and invisible to radar, beaver pelt covered fuselage!!

I assume it will be very efficiant and run on Canadian beer and and fermented Moosejerky, and will be able to land easily in 6+ feet of snow.

 

[82rude]

Re: Jet fighter, Phoenix or fairytail?

reading kfa,s post instantly brought to mind the song, in the year 2525.spooky and oh so sad.

 

[nwcove]

Re: Jet fighter, Phoenix or fairytail?

I assume it will be very efficiant and run on Canadian beer and and fermented Moosejerky, and will be able to land easily in 6+ feet of snow.

not so efficient.....1 24 pack of 5% canadian beer, and 1 lb of jerky +1 jar of solomon gundy will get you to the closest house party, and it will land in unlimited snow depth. may need a pull from a 1972 ski-doo to deploy to the next house party tho.
http://www.food.com/recipe/solomon-gundy-49317

 

[mommicked]

Re: Jet fighter, Phoenix or fairytail?

It looks pretty fast in some pics I saw, but faster than the SR71???? would the Beaver fur improve its aerodynamics or reduce drag that much? I'm sure it would be waterproof. I skinned a big Beaver years ago and my hands were silky smooth and waterproof for weeks afterward...................there was a slight odor, but I only smelled it when my hands got closer to my nose than my elbows for 2 weeks

 

[nwcove]

Re: Jet fighter, Phoenix or fairytail?

a healthy beaver is pretty slick, im sure it would improve top speed ! beaver does have a slight odor, but at mach 3 , it should not be a problem. and im still sure it would have the elusive stealth factor, not matched by any other platform. anyone who has tried to trap beaver will understand. it will work for the next canuck aircraft.

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Jet fighter, Phoenix or fairytail?

I assume it will be very efficiant and run on Canadian beer and and fermented Moosejerky, and will be able to land easily in 6+ feet of snow.

....looks like you started with most of the stereotypes....almost covered 'em all.....eh?

Now, about those 'N.Carolina' stereotypes (some of the best jokes)....heh, heh

All Good
BP

 

[mommicked]

Re: Jet fighter, Phoenix or fairytail?

I may resemble some of the stereotypes :facepalm: I would love to see Canada one day, It looks like a beautifull country and I'm fond of wildlife and large, untouched, wild places too. Doubt I could put up w the cold and the skeeters very long though

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Jet fighter, Phoenix or fairytail?

This plane may be able to reach Black Bird heights, but keep in mind the Black Bird was flying at around 80K ft, at Mach 3+ for sustained periods of time. The air frame, engines, fuel, etc all purposly built to handle the extreme heat and lack of air for the extended periods. The Aero may be able to reach these heights and speeds, but how long can it maintain this before the ship hits the fan?

I have always been a fan of the Black Birds main defense.... If fired upon, speed up.... From watching several documentaries on the Black Bird, usually one of the pilots who flew one always mentions that the published "speed record" for that plane is BS, and the actual highest speed is still classified.

 

[rbh]

Re: Jet fighter, Phoenix or fairytail?

This plane may be able to reach Black Bird heights, but keep in mind the Black Bird was flying at around 80K ft, at Mach 3+ for sustained periods of time. The air frame, engines, fuel, etc all purposly built to handle the extreme heat and lack of air for the extended periods. The Aero may be able to reach these heights and speeds, but how long can it maintain this before the ship hits the fan?

I have always been a fan of the Black Birds main defense.... If fired upon, speed up.... From watching several documentaries on the Black Bird, usually one of the pilots who flew one always mentions that the published "speed record" for that plane is BS, and the actual highest speed is still classified.

That was one of the issues that this aircraft had, mach 2.5 and the skin could not take it for very long.

They did however have a titanium skin version on the drawing board.

Have a look at these two articles on the engine that was to power it before "Black Friday" hit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orenda_Iroquois.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qms6vCS3Dw

Remember this was the 1950's when this was desighned and built, what could it do now with modern materials?


And I am betting that quite a few techs from the Arrow project got picked up by the skunk works team, there are many simularities.
And I know a few went to NASA and desighned and built Apollo.

 

[Wind dog]

Re: Jet fighter, Phoenix or fairytail?

This plane may be able to reach Black Bird heights, but keep in mind the Black Bird was flying at around 80K ft, at Mach 3+ for sustained periods of time. The air frame, engines, fuel, etc all purposly built to handle the extreme heat and lack of air for the extended periods. QUOTE]

My understanding is on the ground it leaked fuel like a siv, not until it reached cruising altitude & speed did the air frame warm up enough to expand & seal all the leaks.

File that under useless trivia.

 

[mommicked]

Re: Jet fighter, Phoenix or fairytail?

I imagine the design also incorporated a highly advanced seat design for the pilots, wearing space suits, to fly so fast and high. It must have had a unique seatbase to accomadate the VERY large cahoonies these guys must have had to test and fly missions in that screaming eagle!! I'm no expert but i think at the time of the F 35s design we were flying the B-58 Hustler? that looks a little dated, compared to the F 35 that looks alot like another deltawinged jet we developed in the 60's?