Is this Chrysler 55 a decent motor?

[Joolz]

As I'm boat shopping, I went to see this mid 80s Phantom boat, a 16' tri-hull that has an open bow and feels comfortable for a beginner boater like me, as it's narrow, shallow and looks pretty light, compared to other boats. Has no wood rot that I could see, unlike some of the other boats I've seen recently that got me running away in a hurry. However this boat comes with an old Chrysler motor and that sends chills up my back (sorry, Chrysler fans). It's only a 55HP, which probably translates into less HP than listed while eating up a lot more gas for its size.

Owner claims the motor works good, starts easily and has no issues. Prop axel seems tight, without play. I never had the chance to see it running (yet) and he offered to let me run a compression test. My fear is that even if this 2 cylinder motor is running well today that it could break down tomorrow and finding parts for it could be expensive or next to impossible. At least that's my take on this brand. Am I wrong on that? Do like the boat, dislike the fact it's an old Chrysler. Had it been a Johnson motor I wouldn't hesitate to proceed.

He's asking 2,300 OBO for the boat/motor/trailer, all seem to be in good condition. Was thinking in offering 1,500 for this very basic boat (that doesn't even have a speedo or any gauges other than the gas level for the inboard tank). I like the boat due to its simplicity and apparent ease of navigating but fear the engine could be a lemon and make my life miserable. Then again I'm basing this solely on prejudice. Please correct me if I'm wrong in expecting the worst from a Chrysler motor.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Chryslers have been looked down on by the snobs of boating for years.(me included)
But it's a good running, easily maintainable outboard.
Parts are still easily obtained.

I own 2 Forces 88/85s and would buy again.

 

[Joolz]

No Title

Thanks, that gives me plenty of reassurance, coming from someone that has a couple of them. Motor does look good in the inside (can't vouch for the outer shell, what a dated design). But the owner seems to have cared for the boat and the motor, so that right there should be good reassurance.

Even a 55 hp would be plenty for our needs, at most we may be pulling a tube later once the kids grow. And we have no desire to be cruising about at 50mph, so speed isn't a concern. What should the compression be in this motor? I ask as I plan to check it before buying it, if he accepts my offer. What about mix ratio?

Do you (or anyone else) have an opinion on the boat itself? It says Phantom on the side but not sure what the maker is. It's basic, seems solid, a tri hull which I suppose is a nice feature. We're looking for a boat for the kids (almost 4 and almost 6) to be able to stretch their legs, something they cannot do in our current tiny boat. This 16 footer has an open bow and plenty of room for them to run around. it isn't fancy but seems to have all the basics. And being light, low profile and not wide, it should be easier to handle for a new mariner like myself.

Now that I have put my concerns about the motor aside, what about the boat itself? Any input from anyone familiar with this model? Seems to be from the mid 80s. I like the metallic paint, although it could use a wax job. Hardly has any wood and what's there seems fine.

 

[ondarvr]

$2,500 is far more than it's worth, and the even bigger issue is the condition of the transom and stringers. You will rarely, as in, I don't think I've seen one on this site yet, that isn't rotten and needs a complete gut and rebuild. It always starts off as "just a small soft spot in the floor" and turns a year long nighmare.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Agreed! $2300 is way over priced. The engine even if in excellent running condition would be worth about 350. AND--I can't tell from your photos but the engine MAY be a basic one with electric start, magneto ignition, and NO alternator to charge the battery. IF the engine has two coils mounted on the starter side, then it is battery ignition with an alternator. Boats that age, unless true collectors items like the Glastron GT150 (James Bond) or the Glaspar G3, are rarely worth more than 1000---1500 bucks..

Parts are readily available, you just need to know where to look--certainly not at the local Mercury dealer. The engine is relatively powerful and relatively trouble free. Keep it lubricated with 50-1 TWC-3 and regularly change the water pump impeller and it may just outlive you.

If you want to see one in action, go to youtube and search Frank Acampora videos. The video will be entitled something like mini boat with raised transom or cougar cub powered with Chrysler 50-- I forget, use your imagination.

As far as the hull, the photos are simply too small to see any decent features. If you could post a few larger photos singly, not three to a frame, it would be easier.

 

[Joolz]

Just watched the vid, very cool. Looks like you were close to 40mph, is this about right? If so then yah, quite the motor.

I'm sure the seller doesn't expect to get asking price, especially at this time of the year. Even $1500 may be a bit on the generous side but boats of that size/weight don't seem that common, at least not around here. I much rather have a lighter, narrower boat than the monster of the same length I've seen lately. But again, it is all pending how well the motor runs and the compression - which I still would like to know what it should be at, to be considered healthy.

Transom seems solid, then again all I did was try to shake the motor by hand as hard a I could. There was no give, if that's a valid test for the transom. Boat seems to have very little wood that's visible, even the floors are made of fibreglass. Not so sure if rot would be an issue inside the hull but then again not having xray vision really is a disability. This seems to be an unknown that pesters every older boat, donnit?

The Chrysler does have two coils, one right by the starter, another (larger one) near the back of the engine, both on the same side of the starter. Guess it means it has an alternator, as per your description. Which is a good thing to learn as I'll bring my voltmeter to test the starter.

One small detail: trying to convince the wife to get this boat while not yet having been able to sell my little blue guy. Lowered the price to just $750, had a few interested parties but so far it hasn't moved. Lacking the room to store it, not sure if I can convince her to let me make an offer on this one. If little blue doesn't sell my plan is to store it at a friends farm for the winter and sell it come spring, when demand for boats is high. May be difficult to find a boat such as red here for a reasonable price then. Btw hull looks great, the shot is mostly intended to show that it's a tri-hull. Which I'm hoping better stability on the water, even if at the cost of turning radius (which I'm assuming is the downside of a tri-huller)

Thanks for the feedback.

Edit: btw I'm in Canada, so prices here may not directly reflect those of the US. As well as parts availability, especially at this time when our dollar is only worth 3/4 of a US dollar.

 

[ondarvr]

There is about a 98% chance that the foam is waterlogged and that there's a good deal of rotten wood, shaking the motor isn't a good method of checking for rot.

Read the thousands of posts on the rebuild and repair forum about purchasing an old trihull that seemed to be OK during the brief inspection.

 

[Joolz]

This denotes that any older boat to be a bad boat. And still you see so many older boats on the water seemingly running fine. And so many more for sale and people buying them and taking them out. So I'm at a loss: if so many boats have water logged foam and/or rotten wood in the transom, then how come so many are still cruising around? What are the signs that things are so bad that you need to pull to shore and take it home? I'm not try to contradict you, just trying to understand what the consequences of a bad transom are and how to spot trouble before handing your cash for that used boat.

Naturally the cost of repairing an older boat outweighs its value. Based on this logic I might as well give up trying to get a boat as the only safe boat would be a new one. And heh, think it's safe to say that ain't happening short of winning the lottery.

 

[Frank Acampora]

On these old Chrysler engines there were two coils on the side of the engine or more rarely two coils mounted on the tapered portion of the head. One in each spot tells me that a coil was replaced. It also tells me that the owner did not want to spend the money for a stock coil and used an automotive coil. Be wary of this engine . Take at least a good compression test. and check the lower unit for water in the oil. Anyone who would jury-rig an engine would probably not do minimal maintenance.

With two coils, Yes, it will have an alternator so that is one positive for the engine.

No, that little boat does 45 MPH. Feels like 100 because you are riding so close to the water. Not being there it is impossible to comment on the condition of the hull. However, if you can stand on the engine anti-ventilation plate and bounce and the transom does not flex, then it is good. You may even lift the front of the trailer doing this but that's no worry. Tri-hull boats are "affectionately known as "wave slappers" They are noted for a rougher ride than other type hulls.

If the floor is sound with no soft spots, then it is likely that the hull is in decent condition. HOWEVER: Do not get emotionally involved. Remember: NO BOAT NEEDS TO BE BOUGHT! There will always be another boat down the road and it may be a better deal. So, do your best examining both boat and engine--don't forget trailer condition and work a deal on your terms.

 

[Joolz]

Thanks for the tips, especially the one for checking the lower leg for signs of water in the gear oil. Never thought of that and it's a one minute test. A "wise" seller could have recently changed the oil in order to hide the fact that it was taking in water but if so, it may not pass the smell test. As in, if it doesn't smell like fouled, old oil, it may be too new to be trusted. Not sure if this is an accurate tell tale sign as even new oil could smell afoul. However the axel for the propeller is tight, so hopefully that's an indication that the bearings and hopefully the seals are in good condition.

Not sure what you mean about stepping on the anti-ventilation plate. Is this the portion in the back of the motor that sits just above the propeller?

You sure know your motors. That is exactly what the owner has done, he went to our local Pick-n-Pull and got a car coil for a few bux which is clearly larger than the one that sits near the starter, and was boasting how simple and cheap it is to replace a coil that is a common a failure point in these engines. Can't say I can blame him for not spending a lot more on a proper marine coil when a car one would do, for a fraction of the cost. Personally I'd do the same unless there's a potential for harm to the engine.
I'm mostly concerned with the starter, this too seems to be something that plagues a lot of motor and definitely one that worries me as it costs plenty. But easy enough to test.

Certainly not emotionally attached to this boat, it just happens to be the only one I've seen so far that isn't a "tank". All others are heavy, bulky. This has all the space we want and may be a few inches narrower than others, which is a plus. But like you said, there will be others, especially in a another month as people try to sell them instead of paying for storage, a good time to look for bargains. Another consideration is that I lack the room to store another boat, as I still haven't sold my current little one. So yeah, will see what happens.

For this size vessel do you recommend sticking to a deep V hull? I hear different things about tri-hulls, that it handles wakes better with minimal impact. I thought this to be a plus but you're saying it slaps more?

So this very motor I was concerned about pushed your little boat to 45mph? That is impressive (also impressed that my guess was within a 10% margin of error)
And I totally know what you mean about it feeling like it's going much faster. My little 12 footer also sits very low to the water. Even at 12 mph (about as fast as I could go with 4 in the boat with my 20HP motor) it felt so much faster. But yeah, now you have convinced me that Chrysler outboards aren't as bad as others make you think, pending it has been well maintained, of course.

 

[Frank Acampora]

The anti-ventilation plate is that plate that sits above the propeller. It is very often referred to as the "cavitation plate" Its sole purpose is to prevent the top of the prop from sucking in air--ventilation. If no barrier is present, as the top of the blades pass close to the surface of the water, negative pressure behind the blade will suck in air. It is very much like a blender creating a vortex and sucking air down into the fluid being blended.

Often, ventilation can lead to cavitation, which is a very different action with usually a different cause, thus the confusion and incorrect term.

As far as what you want to buy, it is entirely dependent upon how you want to use it. Tri-hulls are usually a bit wider, very much more stable at rest and usually roomier. The trade-off is a rougher ride.than an equivalent deep vee hull. On the other hand a deep vee hull usually needs to have more power to get the same speed. It is slightly better at cutting wakes. BUT, really in this size boat hull design is not going to matter much--they ALL bang a bit going through waves and wakes. So, in heavy traffic you still need to slow down a bit.

There is no harm in using an automobile coil. However remember that the auto coil is designed to operate on 9 volts (even though it is in a 12 volt car system) Thus: there MAY be a trade-off of less coil life with the higher 12 volt outboard electrical system.

Note that in a car, the starter draws a lot of current. When starting the engine the battery voltage drops to about 9 volts. Thus the coil is designed to run at 9 volts. A resistor is inserted in a special circuit in line so at running the coil only receives 9 volts. In old Chrysler Corp cars the resistor was a rectangular white ceramic piece mounted on the firewall.

 

[Joolz]

Thanks Frank, for clarifying these. Guess in our case a tri-hauler would suit us just fine. May be a different story once the kids grow and want to try skiing but by then I may be prepared (eager perhaps) to try out a deep V with more power. This is the beauty of boating, if it can found used cheaply, there is no reason why you can't try out a few. Great way to get experience and if buying at the right price, you can probably sell for just as much later on. It's not like I'm buying a boat for life here and I certainly don't get attached to things once I buy them. Whichever boat I end up buying this year may be up for sale or trade by next year. Part of the fun if you ask me.

As for the compression, do you know what it should be? My Johnson 20HP shows 110psi, which is considered healthy (with 1 or 2 psi difference between the two cylinders). Should the Chrysler be the same?

And what is the proper procedure? I'm assuming I remove one plug leaving the other in (but with the wire disconnected) and press the start button briefly 3x? Sounds about right?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Compression is checked with both plugs out and grounded. If you leave the key off and jump the solenoid then you do not need to ground the plugs. Jump from the battery side to the small terminal with a yellow wire. Crank at least 4 turns or until the gauge stops rising. New, compression ranged around 145. Since gauges vary and since the engine has not been run recently you might expect lower numbers. 110-120 would be acceptable. Lower numbers like 50 PSI or a difference between cylinders of more than 15-20 PSI is also cause to worry.

 

[Joolz]

Please clarify how to ground the plugs. Or do you mean the wire that connects to the plugs?

 

[Frank Acampora]

The engine block is grounded through the ground cable to the negative terminal of the battery.

With the wires still connected to the plugs, just rest the shell of the plug on a bare bolt or other part connected to the engine block. Alternatively you can wrap a piece of bare copper wire around both plugs . bend one end into a U shape and press it into the open plug hole--not too far, you don't want to hit the piston.