Is this a shift cable issue? Or something else?

ispaydeu

Seaman Apprentice
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Apr 6, 2010
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Not sure if this is a shift cable issue, or something else? And if it is a shift cable issue, not sure if or what I need to replace, or if I just need to make an adjustment. Details are below:

I took my boat out yesterday for the first time this season, everything went excellent except for issues with the throttle.

Boat is a 1976 Invader Continental Tri-Hull. Everything mechanical is Mercrusier. Engine is an inline 6 cylinder 250 cu in at 165 HP (MCM 165).

Here are important pieces of information to help trouble shoot:
1) Last year, I had an OCCASIONAL issue that, when shifting into forward or reverse, the engine would die. This usually only happened once per outing, not every time. This was often corrected by restarting the engine, and trying again. Typically, it would only do this one time, than it would work the second time. Sometimes it took more than one restart.

2) I had a smaller propeller last year for most of the season, the stall issue was fairly rare at that time, but did still happen usually once per outing.

3) At the end of last season, I put on a propeller that was larger by 1", this was to help bring down my WOT RPM as it was higher than manual stated. After doing this, the stalling issue when going into forward or reverse got worse. I assume this is just because there is more load on the initial spinning of the propeller, I do NOT believe the propeller is too large, I think it is just bringing the issue with the boat (shift cable?) into further light

4) Last year, after engaging the forward or reverse, there was about an inch or two of "play", in which you would push the throttle more and you would not get any extra throttle out of the engine until that 1" or so was passed through.

Fast forward to this year, and my first outing yesterday...

5) Yesterday, when engaging the gear, it took about 3-4 restarts before it got into gear, engine kept dying every time I put it into gear.

6) This got better throughout the day, but still happened some more.

7) Of important note, I mentioned in #4 above about the "play". Now, it is half of the throttle or more. In other words, when putting it in forward or reverse, easily half or more of the throttle is just wasted motion where no extra RPMs are created, so probably 5-6" or so. Than once you get out of that zone, you can finally get adjustable RPMs with the throttle. I was still able to get WOT when fully pushed.

8) Please note, it is easy to shift it in and out of forward and reverse, the throttle lever thing never feels difficult to push.



So, it seems like it would be something with the shift cable, I would assume the lower cable area?

Is this something that I can just adjust?

Do I need a new assembly?

Any other ideas?



I REALLY appreciate your help; this issue is starting to make docking at the ramp fairly embarrassing.
 
Last edited:

JWhit

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Mar 29, 2010
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130
Re: Is this a shift cable issue? Or something else?

Not sure about your exact motor, but likely the stalling is due to a throttle cable or idle adjustment issue. If it gets in gear each time I would not suspect the shift cable, can you check on the motor itself to see the movement associated with your shift lever?
 

ispaydeu

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Messages
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Re: Is this a shift cable issue? Or something else?

I was originally wondering last year if the idle was just too low, but I see so many posts on here about the shift cable and stalling that I thought perhaps that was my issue as well. Although, I have read through about 30 of those posts now and can't find any with the exact symptoms as mine, but very similar.

For the idle adjustment, what should the idle RPM be at? I have a manual, but its at home.

And I assume I need to just the idle when the boat is in the water, not when in a bucket or flushers/muffs attached?


Also, for looking at the shift cable, what exactly am I looking for?
 

tschmidty

Chief Petty Officer
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Mar 24, 2010
Messages
462
Re: Is this a shift cable issue? Or something else?

Do you have a shift interrupt switch? If you do it could be out of adjustment and you'll just need to look at the service manual for your boat on how to adjust it or search here for a post that explains it.
 

ispaydeu

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Re: Is this a shift cable issue? Or something else?

I thought the shift interrupt switch was only if you are having issues when going from forward/reverse TO neutral? I'm not having any issues there, it doesn't stall when going into neutral, just when going into forward or reverse from neutral.

I have had on some occasions, very rare, had it stall when going into neutral, but usually its always when going into gear from neutral. And those times, the RPMs were really low, which was part of what originally made me think it might be the idle RPM, but not sure.
 

bruceb58

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Re: Is this a shift cable issue? Or something else?

Your interrupt switch will operate when going from neutral into forward/reverse if the lower shift cable was failing.

As far as what time the throttle starts occurring relative to handle position has absolutely nothing to do with the lower shift cable and everything to do with the control itself or the throttle cable.
 

ispaydeu

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Re: Is this a shift cable issue? Or something else?

Your interrupt switch will operate when going from neutral into forward/reverse if the lower shift cable was failing.

As far as what time the throttle starts occurring relative to handle position has absolutely nothing to do with the lower shift cable and everything to do with the control itself or the throttle cable.


So for the "play" in the throttle, what should I start with to diagnose it? Should I remove the throttle arm and review how everything is setup there (I assume that is the control you are refering to)? Just need to know how to continue from here.


Also, anyone know what the idle RPM should be?
 

Fishermark

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5,617
Re: Is this a shift cable issue? Or something else?

Have someone watch the shift interrupt switch while you shift. It sounds like it is activating when it shouldn't - or staying activated too long - which generally points to a bad lower shift cable.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
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Re: Is this a shift cable issue? Or something else?

So for the "play" in the throttle, what should I start with to diagnose it? Should I remove the throttle arm and review how everything is setup there (I assume that is the control you are refering to)? Just need to know how to continue from here.
I would start with that. If you watch how the control works, there are two cables attached. Once the shift cable arm stops moving, the throttle arm will start.

As far as the boat dieing when you put it into gear, have you done a complete tuneup this year yet? I would definitely start with that.
 

ispaydeu

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Re: Is this a shift cable issue? Or something else?

I have not done a complete tune up this year.

What all should I do?

I looked in the sticky and found this:
HTML:
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=192804

That what you recommending?

If so, I read it all over, and it seems straight forward (in combination with my service manual).

But, a few questions, here is an excerpt from that link, with my questions in RED:
The main reason for the compression test is to make sure all is well. Record the readings and put them in your log book or a page in your service manual. Then you can check them next year to see how your engine is doing. Change your cap, rotor, points, condenser, etc. Are they recommending to change the cap, rotor, points, condenser every year at tune up time? Or was this simply a continuation of the "keep a log book" part written prior, (ie. indicating to record that in the log book when you do it? Not sure if I'm supposed to replace all those things, or just record it whenever it would be done.
With points ignition, you want to set your dwell, set your timing and check your advance timing, adjust idle speed, adjust idle mixture. Would the ignition on my engine be a "points ignition"? If you have electronic ignition, just eliminate the dwell check since you don't have points.
 

bruceb58

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Re: Is this a shift cable issue? Or something else?

Your engine came with points type ignition. As long as nobody came along later and changed things, you still will have points ignition. If you have never changed points before, I would have someone show you how to do it.

When I had a boat with points, I changed them every year.

As far as the cap, rotor wires... you can inspect them and determine if they need to be changed, They don't need to be changed every year. Same goes for spark plugs but I would probably just change them out right now.

That is just the annual tuneup side of things. You should also be pulling the drive every year as well but that is not really affecting the problems you are seeing right now.
 

ispaydeu

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Re: Is this a shift cable issue? Or something else?

I really appreciate everyone's input.

Here is my plan of attack. If you all could please review this and comment let me know if there is anything else I need to add to this list or rearrange the order, let me know:

1) Inspect throttle control itself
2) If #1 doesn't appear to be the issue, than inspect throttle cable
3) Do tune up as follows:
-Check cylinder compression
-Inspect Cap
-Inspect rotor
-Inspect points
-Inspect condenser
-Set dwell
-Set timing
-Check advance timing
-Adjust idle speed
-Adjust idle mixture
4) If still stalling when putting into gear, than I will have someone watch the shift interrupt switch while you shift
5) Report back findings...
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
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Re: Is this a shift cable issue? Or something else?

Replace the points
Replace the condensor
Replace spark plugs

When you set the dwell, use a dwell meter.
 

ispaydeu

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Re: Is this a shift cable issue? Or something else?

Replace the points
Replace the condensor
Replace spark plugs

When you set the dwell, use a dwell meter.


For those replacements, how do I know what to buy for my engine? I did see in the online manuals that it has the spark plug numbers, but I assume after 30 years its probably out dated. I would prefer to buy ones that are already gapped properly.

Same question about the points and condensor?
 

Fishermark

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Re: Is this a shift cable issue? Or something else?

For the points and condenser, you can simply go to an auto parts store and get points and condenser for an early 70's Chevy Pickup with a 250 engine.

For the plugs, go with AC MR43T.

I would prefer to buy ones that are already gapped properly

You will need to check the gap before installing them. They can get smashed when shipping, and the gap can vary.

Point gap is .016 with a dwell between 31-34 degrees.


I agree that you need to do a tune up.... but I still think you will find your shift cable to be your ultimate problem.
 

Fishermark

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Re: Is this a shift cable issue? Or something else?

By the way, the plug gap is supposed to be .035, and the timing should be 6 degrees before TDC.

You set the point gap and dwell, get the idle right, THEN set the timing.
 

jtmarten

Master Chief Petty Officer
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Messages
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Re: Is this a shift cable issue? Or something else?

Lower shift cable.
 
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