Is there any problem putting an auto engine into a boat?

[Bcrowe]

I just purchased a 1975 sea ray 190 from an indivudual. He told me at the time of purchase, that he had cracked the block on the original engine because he didn't winterize it properly. He continued to say that he replaced it with a ford 302 engine that ran very well in the car that it came out of. He said that he replaced the distributor with the appropriate marine distributor and made all of the other proper changes intake manifold, water pump, etc. The problem is this engine will not fire. It will crank and appears to be getting fuel just no spark. He was unsure if he got the plug wires correct becuase he didnt have the proper firing order. Is this potentially something that will be a simple fix or do i need to purchase an appropriate marine engine for my new boat. I will do what ever i have to do to get it running as I fell in love with this classic boat.
Thanks in advance,
Brad

 

[mkast]

Re: Is there any problem putting an auto engine into a boat?

Open your wallet, both for parts and a marine mechanic.

 

[Bcrowe]

Re: Is there any problem putting an auto engine into a boat?

Thanks for your reply mkast. Do you think it would be cheaper just to go out and find the proper engine for this boat or just get the engine thats in it running? I am new to the whole I/O experince and have only owned outboards in the past.

 

[mkast]

Re: Is there any problem putting an auto engine into a boat?

How much of the engine is marine rated as opposed to automotive?

 

[Bcrowe]

Re: Is there any problem putting an auto engine into a boat?

The intake manifold, the exhaust manifolds, carb, fuel pump, water cooling system, distributor, plugs, and wires i know for sure are all marine rated...as far as the rest of the engine i am not sure.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Is there any problem putting an auto engine into a boat?

Ayuh,... You just need to do the basic Diagnostics to See what's workin',+ what Ain't...

 

[mkast]

Re: Is there any problem putting an auto engine into a boat?

What is the firing order on the intake manifold?

 

[Bcrowe]

Re: Is there any problem putting an auto engine into a boat?

Thats part of the problem mkast...the firing order is not there. the stamping that says firing order is on the intake but the order itself apears ground off. I guess part of my hesitation is the fact that I am a chevy engine guy. Dont know squat about Fords. I just purchased this boat a couple of days ago so haven't had a really good chance to get into the nuts and bolts of the entire thing but i bought it as a project boat in the first place and knew it would take some money to get it going.

 

[Bcrowe]

Re: Is there any problem putting an auto engine into a boat?

Thanks Bond-o, that is what i was hoping. I just was a little freaked about the whole auto engine in a boat thing. But didnt really see any reason it wouldnt work with the proper modifications made

 

[mkast]

Re: Is there any problem putting an auto engine into a boat?

The intake manifold used in the Mercruiser application had the firing order ground off and the firing order from a 351 Windsor was stamped in it's place.
1975 engines had the serial number on the valve cover, still there?

 

[Bcrowe]

Re: Is there any problem putting an auto engine into a boat?

I will have to look mkast. I am not sure. Additionally im not positive he went back with the OEM intake manifold. I think that the boat origially had a v6 in it. I need to call him and ask some more information i guess. With that in mind if he did increase the horse power by upgrading from the v6 to the v8 is there any potential damage that could be done to the out drive becuase of increased torque? Im not sure what outdrive is on the boat i will go out and look in the morning when it is light out.

 

[mkast]

Re: Is there any problem putting an auto engine into a boat?

A V6 has a different gear ratio than a V8.

 

[Bcrowe]

Re: Is there any problem putting an auto engine into a boat?

Thats what I thought. Thanks for your help. I will do some more research into what was origially in my boat and go from there. I only paid 500 for the boat so I guess i could always pull the engine and sell it and use that money as part of a payment on a proper engine.

 

[mkast]

Re: Is there any problem putting an auto engine into a boat?

The block, heads and internals are the same for both.
It's the accessories that are marine rated (spark shielded), cam is marine (some truck cams were used) and the water pump has a stainless steel impeller. Verify the gear ratio on the drive. On that year engine the alternator had a shield, looked like a screen, on the back of the unit.
Download the Mercruiser manual from the adult's only thread, if I remember correctly it was #1. Follow the troubleshooting section and get the engine started. Make sure you have water to the drive, seconds of running without water will destroy the water impeller.

 

[Bcrowe]

Re: Is there any problem putting an auto engine into a boat?

Ok Thanks again, You have been a huge help. I just hope i can make this work. Like I said before I love this boat and will do what it takes. Just hope it will be a relatively simple fix.

 

[ken_23434]

Re: Is there any problem putting an auto engine into a boat?

I know that the 302 engine in automobiles have 2 different possible firing orders. The HO models used a different firing order than the "standard" 302's installed in most vehicles.

1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 normal
1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 HO

The HO firing order is the same as the 351 Windsor.

The firing order required is controlled by the camshaft in the engine. The intake and distributor do not control the correct firing order. If the cam is the same cam that came in the engine along with the original manifold, the the firing order stamped on the manifold would be correct.

Reguardless of the correct firing order, your problem is a no spark issue. You need to find out why you do not have spark, first.

If you have selected the incorrect firing order, you will still have 4 of the cylinders correct.

Personally, I would fix the no spark issue and try to fire it up. If it runs really bad, swap 4 of the plug wired for the other firing order and see it that makes it run better.

The other way to figure out the correct order would be to pull both valve covers, and carefully watch the rise and fall of the rocker arms to identify the order the cylinders are going from each stroke (intake/exhaust).

 

[Bcrowe]

Re: Is there any problem putting an auto engine into a boat?

Thanks bubba and ken for the information on the firing orders for this engine. At least I have a starting place for trouble shooting it. Bubba I had a couple of questions about the Cam info that you provided. If it turns out that i do not have a UA or BF cam in this engine is it possible to simply change it out with the propper cam..I know this would require a complete tear down so it wouldnt be "simple". Im just refering to the possibility of changing the cam. Also if It turns out that I have either the DOZX-A or DOZX-C cam can those be replaced as well with the UA of BF cam. If it is possible to change the cam out what other parts would I possibly have to change to make it work properly?

 

[Bcrowe]

Re: Is there any problem putting an auto engine into a boat?

Sorry I just thought of another question or two. Is there any way to tell if the engine is a 302 HO or not? And also what is the easiest way to tell if the freeze plugs and head gaskets have been replaced? If they have what would be the proper replacement gasket and freeze plugs to make this engine more marine capable? I apologise for my ignorance. But like I stated before I am new to I/O's, Auto to marine conversions and Ford engines in general.
Thanks everyone,
Brad

 

[Ned L]

Re: Is there any problem putting an auto engine into a boat?

If you get the engine running ok I would recommend just using it & enjoying it. For more than 50 years there have been legitimate reliable companies selling marine conversion kits to do exactly what has been done here (usually for straight inboards though). Barr Marine, Osco, Stokes & Capitol are some of the names that made & sold marine conversion kits. As has been said there are some things that need to be changed for safety reasons, some are pretty obvious & have already been mentioned. The ones I remember are: the starter & alternator need to be marine rated (no-sparking), the distributor (I think) is also upgraded for the same reason, the fuel pump (mechanical type) needs to be changed (a marine fuel pump is built so that if the diaphragm fails, the leaking gas goes into the crankcase & not out onto the road like in a car), also there needs to be an approved flame arrestor on the carb, the exhaust manifolds are water cooled, and on a true inboard there is a wedge under the carb. to compensate for the shaft angle.
The cam shaft is only a performance thing. A marine engine compared to a car engine is like thinking of a car always going up a steep hill in 2nd gear. Optimum performance under these conditions are better met with a different than standard cam.
If the marine components were swapped over from the old engine & it runs ok, I'd go with it.

(Forgot to mention the core plugs (freeze plugs)). It looks like you will be using the boat in fresh water by your location. If this is true, you should be able to get a descent number of years out of the steel ones (it wouldn't be a bad idea to change them if you can get to them though).

 

[jakebrake]

Re: Is there any problem putting an auto engine into a boat?

provided the engine is roughly the same vintage as the boat, no spark almost screams bad coil. ground wire or coil itself. about what 25 bucks?

after that? distributor. it's a ford. check the rotor and cap itself. the old fords didn't like water in the first place. the distributor was always a weak point