Is there a safe way to do this?

[MCNPathfinder]

Hey everyone, I'm going camping next week and I would like to bring my boat. My vehicle can tow the boat fine, and can stop provided I leave adequate distance, and actively pay attention. I have an '01 Pathfinder and a 22' Cabin Cruiser that weighs close to 4,000. It's on a dual axle trailer with no brakes. I would like to bring my boat with me, but the trip is just shy of 150 miles each way, and not the short 20 to the lake. I've made the trip a few times, but never pulling a boat. Is there a safe way I can get it up there and back given my current situation or do you think it's wise to keep it at home? I would try to avoid traffic as much as possible, probably leave when traffic is light (early mornings or evening). I don't drive more than about 45-55MPH (tops, downhill), and I try to be very cautious when pulling it. Most of the trip is on the highway through little towns, very little freeway (and I'll avoid it like the plague if possible). Basically just looking for some opinions, I plan on buying a new axle with electric brakes (long story, just trust me, I need a new axle), but my trailer guy won't be able to get it to me before I leave. I know it's not a phenomenal idea, but any thoughts?

 

[The Famous Grouse]

Re: Is there a safe way to do this?

No. There is no safe way to tow 4000 without trailer brakes. You can't be careful enough to prevent everyday things that happen on the road that would be no problem in a car without 2 extran tons propelling it forward.

Is that even legal in your state? It's not legal here, I'll tell you that.

Grouse

 

[Davem3]

Re: Is there a safe way to do this?

No. There is no safe way to tow 4000 without trailer brakes. You can't be careful enough to prevent everyday things that happen on the road that would be no problem in a car without 2 extran tons propelling it forward.

Is that even legal in your state? It's not legal here, I'll tell you that.

Grouse

X2 all the way............. wait for the new one, period!!!!!

 

[MCNPathfinder]

Re: Is there a safe way to do this?

Fair enough. It makes sense. Thanks for the help. Was just looking at some of the towing laws sticky. In MN we need brakes on trailers over 3,000 pounds. I'm assuming I would get a ticket or fined if I got pulled over then? There's too much to risk in the way of safety making a trip like that.

 

[Davem3]

Re: Is there a safe way to do this?

slow and steady wins the race, surge brakes are a must have ........ always have a back up system ..............

 

[MCNPathfinder]

Re: Is there a safe way to do this?

The trailer had surge brakes, but all the lines rotted out. The problem is that I'm not finding any hubs that fit my existing axle. The brake backings are 8.5" which aren't even made anymore. I wonder if I could pipe back up the existing surge brakes, but I'm thinking I'll have a hard time finding brake pads if I can't find the right size backings. I also need to replace the coupler then because it was replaced with just a standard by the previous previous owner due to the intent of electric brakes. My trailer guy said he could get me a completely new axle with the 10" electric brakes for around the $500 dollar mark. I like the idea of electric brakes for additional control (brake controller), but I like the idea of surge brakes because if the trailer did get detached from the truck doesn't it have a mechanism to lock up brakes?

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Is there a safe way to do this?

Go with surge brakes... You don't need electric for that load, there really isn't much benefit. For a good electric system, you have a small onboard battery on the trailer that can activate the brakes if the vehicle is detached.

 

[MCNPathfinder]

Re: Is there a safe way to do this?

Would surge brakes be cheaper? When I checked it seemed like I'd be spending quite a bit to get surge brakes installed on there. What does a new trailer cost for a boat like this do you suppose? Happy 4th everyone! Stay safe on the water! I think I'll keep my boat safely nestled away in storage away from all the crazies!

 

[Lou C]

Re: Is there a safe way to do this?

I bet that boat and trailer loaded up is closer to 5000 lbs. you needs brakes for sure and if it's a tandem you should have en on both axles. No way are the brakes on that tow vehicle going to stop about 9,500 lbs safely. Boating is expensive, this is part of it.
I would stick with surge brakes but some in freshwater areas have used electric with success.

 

[ricohman]

Re: Is there a safe way to do this?

You are at your max load if the boat and trailer are under 5000lbs, and thats if you don't have a manual trans. You won't be bringing anyone else along or you will be over you GCVW.
And without brakes on a marginal tow rig you are not just illegal but dangerous. I would be very surprised if your boat is under 5000lbs with the trailer. My 22.5 aluminum cuddy with a 4.3 is over 5000 lbs on a trailer. If your boat is glass, I would think it is heavier than mine.
I'd also go with surge brakes.

 

[MCNPathfinder]

Re: Is there a safe way to do this?

Interesting. I should probably have it weighed. I know my situation is not ideal. When I bought the boat it was more of a fire aim sort of thing. A good friend was getting rid of it, I was a noob with boats, and I got a great deal. I do have an automatic transmission with a factory tranny cooler. It is fiberglass, and I only go to freshwater lakes. I know electric will get eaten in saltwater conditions.
I think I will try and get them on both axles, that DOES mean that I will have to replace both axles. So at roughly $500 a pop, I'm at $1000, at what point is it cheaper to buy a new trailer?

 

[ricohman]

Re: Is there a safe way to do this?

There are good deals on used trailers but setting it up and fitting it to the boat will have to be done whether you buy used or new. And lifting a boat that large on and off the trailer will present a challenge.
A new dual axle trailer will cost 4k where I live. My buddy bought a 2004 dual axle from the local insurnace yard for $1200 when the boat that originally occupied it was totaled after it blew off an in-water lift.
If you have the time, look for a newer trailer.
If the trailer is otherwise solid, I would rebuild or refit what you have. Swapping axles on trailers is not difficult if you have the tools and experience.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Is there a safe way to do this?

I think I will try and get them on both axles, that DOES mean that I will have to replace both axles. So at roughly $500 a pop, I'm at $1000, at what point is it cheaper to buy a new trailer?

$4k to $5k+ for a new trailer of that size...

 

[MCNPathfinder]

Re: Is there a safe way to do this?

Alright, thanks for the help guys. Sounds like I need to order two new axles then. I was thinking about a new trailer, but man that would just be a pain to get it setup right. My brother and I are going to go measure the axles. I mean are they fairly standard? Or is this going to be something that is going to be fabricated to fit? My trailer guy gave me a worksheet to fill out and then fax to him.

 

[ricohman]

Re: Is there a safe way to do this?

You will find axles that will fit. If they happen to be a bit wider its no big deal to space your fenders out to accomodate.
And you will most likely have to cut the perches off of the new axle and weld them in the proper location for your existing spring location. But this is pretty straightforward.
If you can buy them with the perches as a separate item that will save you a bit of time.

 

[MCNPathfinder]

Re: Is there a safe way to do this?

Yeah, I went and measured the axles and of course, they're not standard sizes. An hour of searching Google reveals nothing really even close to what I need. I've spent so much money and time buying things and realizing they won't fit that I think I'll just take my drawing up to my guy and see what he says. Ultimately I know I could save A LOT of money by buying the axles and associated components separately from a store like TSC or Northern Tool, but I guess I don't mind paying the extra money just to get something that works. It would be nice to have something just bolt up and fit for once on this trailer. If he has no idea, then I'll do it myself and my trailer will have a little wider stance I guess. I don't mind, more stability right? Of course that means I will most definitely need to buy 2 axles. I wish sometimes things just worked, haha! Then I remember, this is me, nothing is ever cheap or easy with me when it comes to vehicles... It's never been so hard for me to be safe! LOL!

 

[ricohman]

Re: Is there a safe way to do this?

Nothing will be a direct bolt on. And wider is better, unless you are refferring to some really wide axles.
I replaced the axle on my old boat trailer last summer. I bought the axle on sale for I think $150 or so and it took one afternoon to reweld the perches and space the fenders.
If you have the tools and the experience it isn't difficult to do. Paying someone else will cost you as much as the parts you are buying and probably more.
You don't need a marine axle. I used triple lipped seals on standard hubs.

 

[sublauxation]

Re: Is there a safe way to do this?

I don't know about welding costs by you but here it was about $70 just to have the spring perches welded on. I bought my axle at www.abctrailerparts.com For an extra $16 he'll make a custom size and put the perches where you want them. I was in a pinch a couple years ago and he got my axle to me in 3 days. I haven't had any problems with it in 4 years. Looks like you can get 2 complete axles with brakes for under $500.

 

[superbenk]

Re: Is there a safe way to do this?

I wouldn't tow that boat with that truck even with a new trailer & brakes. That's a 5000 lb load & it doesn't count the weight of all the stuff in the vehicle too (passengers, luggage, etc) which all need to be counted in your towing weight. It's just too much for that vehicle, period. You could try renting a pickup for the weekend from u-haul maybe.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Is there a safe way to do this?

you only need brakes on one axle. anything over 3000# requires brakes. If there is room, switch to the more common 10" drums unless your in salt water, then I recommend disk brakes.