Is it Safe to Run Full Throttle?

msu124

Cadet
Joined
Feb 5, 2002
Messages
6
Hello All,<br />My Question is one of a series of questions I need for a yearlong project im working on. (Ironically it has nothing to do with boats at all!)<br />Is it safe to run an engine, lets say 200 horse power at full throttle for an extended period of time (up to 7 hours, given that it's properly cooled)??<br />And also what is the life expectancy (in hours) of a properly maintained engine?<br /><br />This looks like a great site here. Im sure it will be an asset to my project.<br />Thanks
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: Is it Safe to Run Full Throttle?

MSU,<br /><br />Outboards (2-strokes) have been much more forgiving in this area than four strokes of automotive design. The 2's have less moving parts. Some of the new four stroke outboards I am sure could do it.<br /><br />Outboards rarely fail due to wear out, they usually fail due to lack of or improper maintenance/fuel-oil ratio, etc. I have run outboards with over 1000 hours on them. They were fine.<br /><br />Consequently, some four stroke auto application marinized engines go well beyond the 2000 hour limit. However, one must realize that an I/O or inboard is rarely run at WOT all the time. I doubt they would live those kinds of hours if they were. Auto engines were not designed to run at those high rpm's all the time. They can be made to do so with relatively good reliability.<br /><br />The long way around to answering your question. I would feel much more comfortable running a two stroke outboard at wot than I would an auto based four stroke of similar output.<br /><br />GO SPARTANS!
 

ODDD1

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jan 23, 2001
Messages
1,054
Re: Is it Safe to Run Full Throttle?

I have had much the same experience as djohns..rarely will you see a worn out outboard, something always kills them first...2500 hours on a gasoline inboard is very possible, with good maintenance...the longest I have seen a small block last was 6200 hours on the clock... there was nuthin left of that motor....
 

msu124

Cadet
Joined
Feb 5, 2002
Messages
6
Re: Is it Safe to Run Full Throttle?

Does any company make a fuel injected 2-stroke? Also, are the 2 strokes that much more reliable than the 4-strokes? I really like the 33% gain in fuel efficiency with the 4-Stroke<br />Any Ideas?<br /><br />DJohns,<br />Good to see another Spartan fan :)
 

Ross J

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Nov 30, 2001
Messages
1,119
Re: Is it Safe to Run Full Throttle?

MSU124,<br />Yes the 2 strokes are more reliable than fours, for the reason of maintanence and reliability, however the give away is expense re; fuel. Here in NZ we pay about $0;97 per litre for fuel and you'd add oil to the mix prior to use for a 2 stroke. My 85hp Johnson burns about 22 litres per 45 kms.<br />Now compared to a friends 90 hp 4 stroke on a similar size boat he gets 65+ kms for the same 22 litres and this includes trolling at low revs! (something I can't do for long).<br />Ross
 

SeaDawg

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 3, 2001
Messages
418
Re: Is it Safe to Run Full Throttle?

msu124, I have to disagree a little bit with Ross, because reliability comparisons would depend on individual motors that you are comparing. All brands have their lemons.<br /><br />I would consider a 4-stroke OB just as reliable as a computer controlled fuel injected 2-stroke OB, since they both are pretty complex engines. And maybe a little more reliable, because (most of the time), if a 4-stroke fails, you do not destroy the engine.<br /><br />However, the tried and true "simple" 2-strokes normally are bulletprrof, as long as you keep some oil mixed with fairly clean gas.<br /><br />But, they like the gas and oil. I found that I realistically cut my fuel consumpsion by over half when I switched from a "simple" 2-stroke to a 4-stroke. Plus, no 2-cycle oil to buy either.<br /><br />But it is really individual preference, like everything else in life.
 

Ross J

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Nov 30, 2001
Messages
1,119
Re: Is it Safe to Run Full Throttle?

Well said SeaDawg ,<br />I also recall that the original Diesel engines were two strokes and had to be made as four strokes because they were too powerful and would tear themselves apart..........
 

BobZ

Cadet
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Messages
14
Re: Is it Safe to Run Full Throttle?

I read a recent artcle on a business guy who runs water taxis on the Colorado River in Laughlin, Nevada.<br /><br />He recently switched from 2 stroke to 4 stroke on his pontoon water taxis.<br /><br />He said he averaged 2,000 hours on 2 cycle motors before rebuilding the power head. He now get 3,000 hours before rebuilding the 4 cycle. He also said his fuel and gas bill has dropped by 30%.<br /><br />And, a U of M guy would know all of this. :D
 

captsara

Seaman
Joined
Jan 28, 2002
Messages
65
Re: Is it Safe to Run Full Throttle?

Rule of thumb that has gotten me home is Balls to the wall, and back her of 200rpm. Are Detroit diesels two stroke? I was thinking they exhaust on the down stroke. I'm probably full of gas. Somebody set me straight. I think 4- stroke out boards are far better, but only time well tell. Ecologically there's no question, but we are a bunch of stinkpots anyway. I have heard rumor that 2 cycle motors are banned in some waters. Is this true?
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: Is it Safe to Run Full Throttle?

MSU, Maui Girl,<br /><br />Yes. Detroits are "hybrid" two stokes. Detroit diesels take input air via a blower through ports in the cylinder wall, like an outboard. The difference lies in the fact that these diesels then compress that air, have fuel injected and create power on the down stroke. The exhaust is then pushed out throught exhaust valves, on the next stroke, in the head. All the while, fresh air is being pumped in.<br /><br />There are four valve and two valve Detroit engines-whether they be 53, 71, or 92 series engines. The reason for four valves on a Detroit was simply to improve exhaust scavenging of the cylinder. Detroits, like 2 stroke outboards are notoriously "dirty" that's why Detroit Diesel went to four valves-it bought them some time before emission standards caught up with them. All new Detroits are four stroke-automotive anyway. <br /><br />Detroit still makes "2-strokes" for marine and stationary power only.<br /><br />Also, Detroit diesels were notoriously "peaky" in their torque range. The offered peak torque in a very narrow band, about a 300 rpm range. That was the reason that heavy trucks went to 15 and 18 speed transmissions.<br /><br />Detroits, in boats, work well. However. they were thirsty, like 2-stroke outboards, and had other problems, ie; longevity, leaking oil, noisy.<br /><br />Nothing sounds like a Detroit under load. Once heard, you never forget. Kind of like a Merlin engine in a Mustang.<br /><br />The two stroke technolgy, of today, employed by outboard manufacturers is what I call "bridge" technology. They will perfect them and make them reliable.<br /><br />We're not that far away from internal combustion engines,in total, becoming extinct species.
 

mbb

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Apr 20, 2001
Messages
176
Re: Is it Safe to Run Full Throttle?

Im gonna go against the grain here. Its my understanding that outboards are only designed to run at full throttle about 10% of the time (I dont remember where I read this, but I did). Im not saying it will fail if you run it wot for that long, but I dont believe it was designed for it. Many people think wot is bad, many others think low rpm is bad. Personally, I think it depends on the particular engine and how well it was designed. Every engine will have a weak point, some will build carbon faster at different temps, etc. Who knows. Whats said above is true though, rarely is a motor worn out, it usually fails because of<br />non-use,and poor maintenance. It helps to always have oil too.
 

Silver Heels

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
125
Re: Is it Safe to Run Full Throttle?

I am going to have to disagree with a few posts here. If you are running WOT, provided you are not exceeding the redline, you should be fine, as long as you have oil, cooling, and its not running lean. You are operating that motors within the manufactures parameters. No, you wont get the same lifespan as a guy who runs their motor more conservatively, just as the guy that races his car will go through more engines than the casual sunday driver. There is all sorts of anecdotal experience on this site. I'm sure someone claims they blew their motor the first time they took it past a trolling speed and another guy who'll say he crossed the Atlantic with the engine screaming at redline the whole time. My point is you have to sort the fact from the fiction. For what its worth, I've run just shy of WOT for long stretches before with no problem. That last little bit of throttle doesn't give you any more appreciable speed and only wastes fuel.
 

OldMercsRule

Captain
Joined
Nov 30, 2006
Messages
3,340
Re: Is it Safe to Run Full Throttle?

The answer is yes most well tuned outboard engines in good corndition will run at sustained WOT for seven hours or more without any damage as long as the fuel is clean and of sufficient octain and lubrication is at recommended levels and the cooling is functional.

Sustained WOT operation will cut the engine life and increase fuel cornsumption relative ta an equally well maintained engine that was run at variable engine speeds (up to and including some WOT operation).

That said: the outboard engines will run so long it will not be obvious except fer the fuel bill, which will be. ;)

As to fuel cornsumption: methinks you folks should read Silvertip's data which is in direct disagreement with yer anecdotal or advertizing biased statements on this thread. Yer real wrong: me friends!!!!

His data is from his own studies with a fuel flow meter and the manufacturer's own stats and directly cornflicts with what you are saying here.

Two stroke engines are simpler and lighter and produce more power, (boom each rotation ;) ), then similar rated much heavier more cornplex four strokes, (boom every other rotation :eek: ).

The gas cornsumption per power output is the same @ WOT fer all similar rated engines, (please look up the defination of horse power which is very directly related to fuel burned), shockin' eh? You may have a minor point that cornsumption per hour maybe somewhat less on the much less powerful four strokes at very low or mid range RPMS, but the boat is also going much slower so the fuel cornsumption is still very close if you look at the distance covered per btu of fuel actually burned.

This is basic physics folks, not rocket science.

The four strokes do idle and troll fer long periods easier then the two strokes. They also polute less then the older carbed two strokes but not the modern E-tech type two strokes which are just as clean if not cleaner and much lighter weight.

When the four strokes have been around fer over forty years and still run as good as me old fresh water two stroke virgins we shall talk then about the reliability of yer precious four strokes.

Common sense tells me the more cornplex, more maintenence intensive four strokes will have a real hard time lasting as long as two strokes obviously last, as I don't have to change crankcase oil and oil filters or adjust valves either.

Me over priced $.02. JR
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,745
Re: Is it Safe to Run Full Throttle?

"When the four strokes have been around fer over forty years and still run as good as me old fresh water two stroke virgins we shall talk then about the reliability of yer precious four strokes. "

They have been around for over forty years.

Like the Homelite Bearcat 55, which still bring $1500 on the used market.
Or a 1964 Honda.
 

5150abf

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
5,808
Re: Is it Safe to Run Full Throttle?

In your original post you say this has nothing to do with boats so what engine specifically are you wanting to run at WOT, that info could change the answers you get.
 

OldMercsRule

Captain
Joined
Nov 30, 2006
Messages
3,340
Re: Is it Safe to Run Full Throttle?

"When the four strokes have been around fer over forty years and still run as good as me old fresh water two stroke virgins we shall talk then about the reliability of yer precious four strokes. "

They have been around for over forty years.

Like the Homelite Bearcat 55, which still bring $1500 on the used market.

Yeah there are Studebakers n' Packards that still exist as well: Roscoe. Some people like novelties and will restore heavy out moded junk jus' fer the sake of said novelty. Didn't that outboard company go away? Wonder why: eh? ;)

Or a 1964 Honda.

At least Honda is still in bidness, (due to their fine autos and great small engines), NOT THEIR 1964 outboard engines!!!

The four stroke Honda built outboard ya mention was not built (and refined), corntinuasly from 1964 to 2009 (wonder why)? Heavy gutlas cornplex and relatively expensive junk is why. They need Central Corntrol, and advertizin' kool aid fer the masses ta make the sales of heavy gutlas four strokes ta happen.

Four stroke outboards have always needed the interferance of Central Corntrol ta sell, jus' like Nanny Gubmint did to our domestic autos, (a real sucess: eh?) and alcohol based fuel, (another wonderful deal brought ta you by Nanny Gubmint n' money grubbin' pols), yasureyabetcha!


Let's all sing along:

"Freedom is jus' another werd fer nothin' left ta loose"!! The late: Janis Joplin, (died from a drug OD).


In 2050 (if we still have cornbustion outboard engines as allowed by a power grabbin' Central Corntrol), I bet the living heavy maintenence intensive virgin four strokes will be less as a percentage of total four decade old sales figures then the still living 1960's and 1970's virgin two stokes.

Yer exceptions noted.

Respectfully, JR
 

Tim Frank

Vice Admiral
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
5,346
Re: Is it Safe to Run Full Throttle?

I am going to have to disagree with a few posts here.

Sorry....statute of limitations ran out....:)

You gotta love these 7 year old posts that get recycled and transcend several significant leaps in technology.....;)
 

5150abf

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
5,808
Re: Is it Safe to Run Full Throttle?

DANGIT!!

Got me again, why would you answer a 7 year old post?????
 
Top