Iraq Today

[SoulWinner]

Ok, I don't intend for this to be a troll or turn into an argument. PW, David Moore, RodBolt, we all know that you think Bush is a dummy, the reasons for the war were staged, and Halliburton, along with Carl Rove are behind everything. That's fine with me. What I want to do here is to discuss ways to win this thing.<br /><br />For the last year not much has been done to curb the activities of the insurgents. Pretty much every day of the week they blow something up. They move about the country with impunity, moving weapons and explosives and no one seems to be able to stop them. There is no way to stabilize Iraq with this stuff going on. Any country that can't be secure for it's citizenry can't be stable. Also, the Shiite versus the Sunni problems continue to fester within their new government.<br /><br />To me it is obvious that these people, God bless them every one, are living in the 7th century. Their laws and customs, their clan mentality, and their immature way of behaving are the big problems here. How can we as a modern, industrialized, enlightened, PC, western culture fight them and win? Look at Kosavo. We went in and stood up for the Muslims. Since the end of that engagement, more than 150 Christian and Jewish churches have been burned to the ground by the Islamic a$$ clowns we went in there to fight for. Like them, the Muslims in Iraq do not abide by the Geneva Convention. They desecrate the Holy Bible, rape and torture American POW's, and generally act like barbarians. Can a modern politically correct country beat these guys without sinking to their level?

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Iraq Today

I can tell ya what I would do, but then I would be bad.

 

[davemaxi1970]

Re: Iraq Today

if the great miltary minds of the U.S. and U.K. cant think of an exit strategy what chance do I a humble fisherman have? most of the troublemakers came from overseas( to my eternal shame the UK has its fair share)and what did the UK demand of the guantanamo bay prisoners ? the tree huggers and socialists cried send them home as they are being mistreated its against their human rights to be held in a cage ,with the memory of what they have done to hostages fresh in my mind a tree and a rope was all they deserved and anyway where did these tree huggers think these guys were found ? walking down the street in London ? I think not. there is only one way to defeat terrorism be smarter be honest be ruthless

 

[DJ]

Re: Iraq Today

and no one seems to be able to stop them.

That is what we are being told. <br /><br />That is not necessarily the truth.

 

[JB]

Re: Iraq Today

You've been watching the media too much, SW.<br /><br />The problem with too many facts is that they would inform the enemy what we are doing and what we plan. That would be really dumb.<br /><br />It is bad enough that the media makes so much of enemy successes, we don't want them showing our hand, too.

 

[PW2]

Re: Iraq Today

I was watching book TV on C-span --there was an author of "The fall of Baghdad"<br /><br />Anyway he was asked fundamentally the same question, and he basically said there was only one option and at some point it will happen...and that is Iraqi death squads to bring order, (much like Saddam kept order).<br /><br />Obviously we can't be a part of this, and he did not elaborate on how, if at all, we maintain any influence on it...<br /><br />If that is the case, not sure what we have accomplished by the whole mess.<br /><br />Maybe Rumsfeld and Wolfie have a secret plan for success they are not telling us...We'll see, I guess.

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: Iraq Today

Hey PW2, we are agreeing here! Cool. These folks culture is so backward, I have begun to doubt whether they can live in civilized manner like we do. The riots after the News Week article are a perfect example. These folks are kind of uncivilized, or backward or something. There has to be a reason that none of those countries are democracies. They are all dictatorships or theocracies.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Iraq Today

I've been struck lately about how similar the Islamo-fascists are to the imperial Japanese in WWII. Both are fanatical beyond anything logical. Both use suicide attacks as a method of warfare. Both torture and mutilate prisoners and civilians as a matter of "policy." Both treated woman as property. Etc., etc. The parallels are striking...<br /><br />The way we changed Japan was to totally defeat it and force a change in culture from top to bottom with an iron hand. We are trying to do the same thing in the heart of the Middle East although with less of an iron fist.

 

[Elmer Fudge]

Re: Iraq Today

Originally posted by Ralph:<br /> I've been struck lately about how similar the Islamo-fascists are to the imperial Japanese in WWII. Both are fanatical beyond anything logical. Both use suicide attacks as a method of warfare. Both torture and mutilate prisoners and civilians as a matter of "policy." Both treated woman as property. Etc., etc. The parallels are striking...<br /><br />The way we changed Japan was to totally defeat it and force a change in culture from top to bottom with an iron hand. We are trying to do the same thing in the heart of the Middle East although with less of an iron fist.

I agree 100%, The only way to control the situation is with an iron fist policy, just look around their neighhourhood, i won't be too surprise to see in 20 years down the road, we have another dictatorship running Iraq, how else can a population of 23 million people who are divided by ethnicity, tribalism and religion function as a country? Sadaam knew this and so do the leaders of all the other middle eastern nations.

 

[PW2]

Re: Iraq Today

The difference in the two examples was that Japan was thoroughly and completely defeated. <br /><br />Iraq was not. We told them to put down their arms and go home. They did, but apparently they did not disarm.<br /><br />Did you ever wonder why the Iraqi army and police have been difficult to train, while clearly the insurgeants, wherever they are from, seem to have no such problem? It is because one passionately believes in his cause, where the other does not.<br /><br />I don't necessarily endorse what I stated, but only offered it as one person's opinion. It may well be inevitable.<br /><br />As I stated from long before we entered this war, it will be an easy military victory followed by the peace from hell. I have seen nothing in the last few years to make me modify my opinion one bit.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Iraq Today

I agree with the total defeat PW. We had to nuke the Japanese twice and the Afghanis had enough war after 20 years of fighting in one form or another. That's not the case for the Iraqis or the other fanatics in the region. There are large groups in this nation who will/are preventing us from accomplishing the total defeat necessary in a swift and efficient manner. <br /><br />As for training PW, it's apples and oranges. It's not hard to take a fanatic, chain him to a remotely detonated car bomb and force him to drive into a crowd of civilians. Every time they have fought straight up they've been slaughtered in ratios of 100s to 1 -that tells how well trained they really are...<br /><br />Developing a disciplined, professional military force is infinitely harder... If we just wanted them to be savage murderers and kill everything in sight I suspect training would be a lot easier.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Iraq Today

The only way is to give the people something to live for.<br /><br />They really have nothing but hate.<br /><br />Ken

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Iraq Today

And like Japan, drop one or two nice one's on them and they will lay down their arms and bombs and they will start waving the white flags.<br />Everyone one of them hate and that is all they know, is hate and kill.<br /><br />But, we are too nice now to do something like that, but that is what it will take, IMO.

 

[snapperbait]

Re: Iraq Today

I with ya SBN... BOMB THEM!...