I'm back, and my question is about cruisers and power

[Philster]

I am back after about three long, boatless years. I had a Scarab 26 and then a Checkmate 24 that was mostly custom. I boated my whole life.

I have moved on from speed on water, as I now pursue my speed on land, but I am coming back to the water.

I am settled mentally on the water as a weekend get-away -- usually a one night stay -- to get out to big coves and raft up with friends. My boat will need to be my get-away for Sat-Sun. I will probably do a night on the water somewhere now and then.

I've spent a life of knowing fast boats, ski boats, 502 Magnums, Optimax racing outboards... and now I have to learn what the 'musts' are when it comes to cruisers, of the 28-32 foot range. Right now, Rinker has the layouts that seem appealing, but just as a start.

Is there a thread already or some top 10 things I should know?

What I want: A/C. V and aft berth. Good power ( I have questions). Good build quality. Generator (min specs, brands to prefer, etc).???

Survey will be done and the surveyor will be MY guy... that I choose -- not from a broker, etc.

Power: I see decent 28' boats with decent sleeping accomodations and A/C and 280-300 HP... And I think: This big boat will plane on 280 HP? I guess gearing and torque plus duo-prop can do that???

Are there generators to run from? I have a mental note that gen types/size/brands are either good or ''run!"

A/C specs? Are there A/C specs to consider?

Of course, my budget puts me on the cusp of twins... and the associated increased costs.

Anyway, my signature line used to say, "Date an I/O, but marry an outboard!" Looks like I'm gonna risk getting my heart broken on an I/O equipped cruiser.

Thanks, and be patient as I find my way back to boating. Suggest anything you can.

 

[Scott Danforth]

go with twins, when docking you will be much happier

as far as gennys go, they are all the most inexpensively overpriced piece on the boat. they all work, they all have issues.

it comes down to condition....condition.....condition....

as far as power, in a cruiser, I like diesels.... however a 28' would be fine with twin 4.3's or larger. you didnt say how fast you wanted to be.

thats all I got..... plenty of qood quality boats made over the last few dozen years. plenty to pick from.

 

[JoLin]

Hi, Philster. You don't say how many people you want to sleep. Will you trailer or slip the boat? What's your climate like? Do you really need to use A/C at anchor? I ask because I've never needed it in that situation. Breeze through the boat was plenty.

I don't have a genny and never had an issue with staying out for as long as 2 nights and 3 days. Exercise good power management. My alcohol/electric stove(or a propane camp stove) lets us cook. Food's kept in a Coleman Extreme cooler- fridge is turned down or off. Hot water is generated by running an engine for 20 minutes once a day. Every spring, I consider buying a generator, and every fall I realize I never needed it.

Power. The boat in my sig has hit 39 mph with bimini down,in calm water and light breeze. My Four Winns 278 Vista (express cruiser) did about the same with the same power. That said, a single dual prop V-8 will drive you to at least 30 mph. Single engine gives you a much more accessible engine room in this size boat.

If going dual, pay attention to engine access. Twins in a 10' or less beam are a snug fit. My Four Winns had hatches that were wide from side to side, but narrow front to back. Impossible to work on. My Carver has 4' by 4' hatches- the entire cockpit opens up. I can do anything on these engines.

 

[tpenfield]

Philster we have been looking all over for you

Wasn't that checkmate boat brand-new ?

Anyway as far as 28 foot boats and larger , you will really want twin engines. Not sure if you have looked at the Formula's Sea Ray's, or Chaparral's? Those brands might be worth considering as well to get the quality you are looking for.

 

[Philster]

Yes, my Checkmate was brand new at the time and lots of custom touches (life happens; plans change despite we not wanting them to; we move on). I took time to rethink how I want to enjoy life and the water. Kids have waverunners, and my need-for-speed happens on autocross tracks and rallies,etc.

Will not trailer the boat. Will be in wet slip. Usually just to sleep two. In a pinch, I like a bed for another 1-2 people.

Yes... Chappy, Formula and Sea Ray are on my search radar.

Good point about engine access, because I will tackle most maintenance. I will pay attention as I intend to hop in/out of a few cruisers this weekend to get a feel for things. Been on many, just wasn't paying attention as I would if I were considering owning one. Now, perspective changes.

Speed: Honestly, I want to get on plane comfortably and cruise, and it seems a 35 MPH cruise would be sufficient.

I am torn about seeing mostly salt water boats. I live/boat near NJ/DE/MD. Not sure how hellbent I should be on getting only a fresh water boat, if that is even feasible.

Nice to be back. The plan is to be on the water in 2017.

 

[Scott Danforth]

you can push a 28' boat with a duo-prop drive at 35mph with big block power or twins. a single small block will need to be a stoker (6.2liter) at a minimum

 

[jkust]

My comment is just that a single 5.7 liter 300HP engine won't be adequate for the weight of the loa's you are suggesting. I wouldn't go any less than twins and the beauty is the bigger LOA you go, the better the deals or so it goes in my area.

 

[Slip Away]

Monterey 280 SCR with 8.2L. 29' LOA and 9'2" beam for plenty of room. 50 mph at WOT. Sleeps 4 comfortably. Do it

 

[jkust]

To clarify my comment, I'm suggesting twins for the back up power of having a second engine in a pinch first and foremost and secondly for the docking. I don't know where you boat but I am presuming that it is in big water given the boats you have described owning. If that isn't the case and it is is for example on a lake such as Lake Minnetonka here in the middle of the city next to Minneapolis, MN then I would be indifferent. Of course, I don't know if you have budgetary constraints that may come into play either.

 

[tpenfield]

Pushing a 27-28 foot boat with a single engine is physically possible, but go ride a 28 footer with twins and you will appreciate the difference. They are different boats with twins, and for the better.

 

[Philster]

Yeah..... it's looking like it's gonna take twins to satisfy me, and I have two-foot-itis already. Now, on twins, am I looking at B3 or Duoprop or is that moot with twin props?

Camper enclosure... twins... room in engine compartment... of course a layout that works for me...

She'll run in the coastal Atlantic occasionally, but mostly in the Chesapeake, Delaware Bay and intercoastal waterway.

Budget is all over the place. I'll spend more for a substantial upgrade. It seems like 60-80g's can fetch a pretty good 29+ cruiser with twins and be well equipped.

 

[JoLin]

Yeah..... it's looking like it's gonna take twins to satisfy me, and I have two-foot-itis already. Now, on twins, am I looking at B3 or Duoprop or is that moot with twin props?

It isn't quite moot. Duo props will give you slightly better performance all around, but IMO the difference isn't as significant as it is in a single engine boat. I wouldn't base my buying decision on the number of props per drive.

My .02

 

[tpenfield]

If you have the Bravo3's or VP Dou's, then you will not have to worry about counter-rotating engines. On cruisers you will/should see the B3/Duo's. On twin engine go-fast boats, you will see the Bravo 1's with counter rotating engines/outdrives to offset the torque.

Also on twins . . . no more v-hull 'waggle' at idle speeds. :thumb:

 

[Philster]

So, nothing like a sample, so here's the kind of boat (hours, size, power, equipment, price) that I've been saving/sorting. http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2004-maxum-3100-se-681875/

I'm a Mercury guy, so am a little concerned there might be an undesirable Volvo outdrive set up (mental note about composites or something in some Volvo outdrives that are a problem). Again, this is why I am here, because I don't know much about cruisers and some of the better ones seem to have Volvo setups.

My top three boats are fresh-water boats, or fresh-water cooled, have twins are near 30+ feet and are private sellers who seem to have the means to pour money into their care. Anyway, the input here is saving me hours of time, and I have a nice check list now.

Please continue to opine.

 

[jkust]

It kills me how little cruisers cost used but how impractical they are on 99.99% of MN lakes. Those photos are terrible and there's not enough of them.
Not a fan of obsolete Maxum (I get this is just an example) and at least again in my area, the Volvos have fewer mechanics working on them. So many of them just sit in the slip and have a fraction of the hours of a garage sized or trailer boat. I just added 6 feet over my previous 18 footer and I'm getting 2 foot itis again looking at cruisers.

 

[Philster]

Maxum is a mid-grade boat and gets decent survey results for general build quality. It barely makes my list, but this year/model checks out. Yes... private sellers take terrible pics.

All these boats are more than people bargain for. I know a few areas where the water and coves are great, but people underestimate the effort to get to the boat, and the number of them afraid of actually using it is staggering.

I have boats saved from all over. This one is local, and lived its life on the upper Chesapeake, making short drives to coves and the owners were a little too particular to use it as a camper. That's a brutal day trip: Drive 90 mins to your cruiser, use it, then go home because you don't want to stay on it. Heck, waking up and tinkering is how things get done. They just paid the marina for everything. They paid a teen to button it up!

Again, for twin Merc power, size, canvas/camper offering and general equipment, it's about what I am looking for. Wide beam, too. From what I have saved, Rinker is a slight step up and then Regal & Chappy, as far as how comparable boats step up in price.

( I can't find a Sea Ray I like, and from the years in play, they also seem to have some major structural issues, which I'd rather not debate, because I don't like their layouts at all)

 

[airdvr1227]

If it's just going to be 2 persons most of the time check out the Carver Santego layout.

 

[jkust]

Maxum is a mid-grade boat and gets decent survey results for general build quality. It barely makes my list, but this year/model checks out. Yes... private sellers take terrible pics.

All these boats are more than people bargain for. I know a few areas where the water and coves are great, but people underestimate the effort to get to the boat, and the number of them afraid of actually using it is staggering.

I have boats saved from all over. This one is local, and lived its life on the upper Chesapeake, making short drives to coves and the owners were a little too particular to use it as a camper. That's a brutal day trip: Drive 90 mins to your cruiser, use it, then go home because you don't want to stay on it. Heck, waking up and tinkering is how things get done. They just paid the marina for everything. They paid a teen to button it up!

Again, for twin Merc power, size, canvas/camper offering and general equipment, it's about what I am looking for. Wide beam, too. From what I have saved, Rinker is a slight step up and then Regal & Chappy, as far as how comparable boats step up in price.

( I can't find a Sea Ray I like, and from the years in play, they also seem to have some major structural issues, which I'd rather not debate, because I don't like their layouts at all)

I don't know if you are interested in shipping a boat to you but generally our boats in MN are a rip off in the used market because everyone owns them and the demand is high for trailer boats but you can practically steal a cruiser since there are just so few places to use them. Nice, upper end brands less than 10 years old with of course very few hours on them given everything you explained and the fact that the lakes just aren't that big. The depreciation is just breathtaking on them.

 

[Blind Date]

I don't know if you are interested in shipping a boat to you but generally our boats in MN are a rip off in the used market because everyone owns them and the demand is high for trailer boats but you can practically steal a cruiser since there are just so few places to use them

Having purchased 6 used boats in MN I have to completely disagree with that statement. I bought my SeaRay in Cincinnatii & I payed a lot less for it there than I would have in MN. There were 2 for sale in MN back in 2003 but it was still worth the time and expense to pull it back from Ohio. I could have parked it along the shores of lake Minnetonka and made $3-4K on it easy but I didn't buy it to make money.

Minnesota is a good place to buy a boat from because only freshwater and short seasons mean they age a lot less slowly than something from say Florida. Personally if I was slipping a cruiser in salt water I wouldn't touch one with I/O's. I'd go inboards with closed cooling.

 

[Philster]

I am considering boats that need to be shipped. I do have a good number of boats that I can see that sit in fresh water locally, and there are good #'s of them listed. In this part of the country, it's very cool to have access to huge #'s of fresh-water boats nearby (0-90 mins is local as far as I am concerned). Yep... I am coastal to the Atlantic ocean, but we have big rivers and the upper Chesapeake. You could actually enjoy a salt water trip and head home to fresh water in the same day.

Info in here has been great. I think I am most worried that even some twins are pushing too much boat and getting tired often early in life. Survey and compression and/or leakdown tests to be done. I have to be diligent.

I have considered true inboards, too. I need to get my learning curve up on those.

Curious... I am so I/O and outbooard schooled... but do Merc 496's and such find their way into true inboard setups?