I need help BAD!

[socalxr650]

I recently bought a boat with a 1986 model Johnson 175 outboard.<br /><br />After buying the boat, I took it to a shop and had the entire motor rebuilt from top to bottom. It was hogged out to .45 over, and the mechanic assured me that the motor will now run like a raped ape.<br /><br />I took it to the lake a week ago today, and put it in the water, after allowing it to warm for approximately 5-10 minutes, got under way. <br /><br />Once out of the no wake zone, I eased into the throttle. The response was slow! It took more than half throttle to get to 3,000 RPM. Once I got it to 3,000 RPM and tried to cruise, the motor would surge and then bog. The REVS kept fluctuating between 3000 and 2000. After some trouble shooting I noticed the primer bulb was getting sucked shut when we were at 3000 RPM. Once I pumped the bulb, the motor came up to speed. If I continued to pump the bulb it would run well. Logic tells me it is a fuel starvation problem. I should tell you it has a new fuel filter, and that is not the problem.<br /><br />The boat went back to the mechanic for fixing. I recived the call today that it was ready. The mechanic told me that he took it to the lake and it ran perfect. He adjusted the carbs and "a few other adjustments." The mechanic stated that he was able to run at 5000 with no fluctuation. He statd that the motor held well at all RPMS tested. <br /><br />I took it to the lake after work an could not get the motor above 1500.<br /><br />Sorry for the LONG drown out first post, but I need help! Any advice you guys can give would be great!<br /><br />Thanks in advance.<br /><br />Paul

 

[lark2004]

Re: I need help BAD!

did you open the vent for the fuel tank?<br /><br />Cause thats what causes the primer bulb to get sucked flat.

 

[djzyla1980]

Re: I need help BAD!

Agree with lark...I was once on the lake and forgot to open the tank vent on a plastic tank.... For the life of me couldn't figure out why it kept stalling.... then when it did I jumped back there and opened the hatch.... only to find the plastic tank collapsing... <br /><br />If you had it open then it's more then likely from the bulb back to the tank.

 

[socalxr650]

Re: I need help BAD!

Sorry, I was trying to get the sotry as short as possible, but I managed to leave out a few key components. <br /><br />We did run it with the fuel cap off, so there is no vent problems.<br /><br />After pumping the primer for some time while under way, the boat began to hold a good 3000 RPM. After cruising at 3000 RPM the boat decided to surge and hold at about 4200 RPM. We cruised for a bit at 4200 RPM and the boat was running well. <br /><br />We decided to push the envelope, and increase throttle. Got it to around 5000 and were cruising really strong, for a approx 10 minutes when the motor quit, and would not re-start. <br /><br />This is my first endevore into outboards, so please keep all responses at a novice level.<br /><br />Thanks again

 

[Pony]

Re: I need help BAD!

Was the motor rebuilt, like rings and pistons and all???<br /><br />Are you still in a break in period if it was completely rebuilt?

 

[djzyla1980]

Re: I need help BAD!

I'd figure out if he's usin the same gas tank as you.... Also if a mechanic rebuilt this motor... I'd take it back to him and let him show you what he is doin to get it to run correctly.

 

[lark2004]

Re: I need help BAD!

What Dave said.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: I need help BAD!

Lets start with the basics. Whats the model number? A 1986 175 is a 2.6 liter motor. The largest piston available, that I know of, is a .040 os. If it's bored to .045, we have a problem.<br /><br />If it's a 1985 175, thats a 2.5 liter block and there is a .044 os piston. If its bored to .045 that may be OK but we need to know exactly what motor you have and EXACTLY what it was bored to.<br /><br />Now, typically if the bulb is getting sucked flat that means the pump is pulling but there is a restriction forward of the bulb. Youve eliminated the vent but it could be a crimped line, too small a connection, clogged pick up etc.<br /><br />Also if the bulb is sucked flat theres no way to pump it by hand. Unless you stop and the bulb "opens" and then you can pump it. <br /><br />Silly question but -- is the bulb pointing in the right direction? Have you tried a different fuel supply?<br /><br />If the mechanic says it runs fine for him, tell him you want to go with him to see what hes doing differently. (I'd bet it doesnt run fine for him)<br /><br />Lets start by figuring out what motor you have. If the model number is gone look at the exhaust plates on the motor between the heads. Are they flat or is there a big hump?

 

[socalxr650]

Re: I need help BAD!

I appreciate ya'lls input. I will give you todays story, then I will address your comments on things to check.<br /><br />I met the mechanic at the lake today so he could see first hand what I am dealing with.<br /><br />Boat started very easily, and idled well. The mechanic was at the helm. Out of the no wake zone, he punched it. It jumped up and got on plane relatively quickly. The boat performed decent for the first lap of the lake, approx 3 mile loop. Then it stalled, the mechanic took the cover off, made a few adjustments and it ran great. Damn gremlins!<br /><br />The mechanic stated that before the motor was rebuilt, water got into the motor. The water caused the engine to overheat and all kinds of damage. The ingested water is daid to have damaged the carbs. The carbs were not rebuilt, just taken apart and cleaned etc..<br /><br />The mechanic states that this is the cause of the poor performance, and I should look to replace the carbs.<br /><br />After the mechanic left, I took a few more laps around the lake. The boat performed great, with the exception of idling. It will not idle properly. I was able to get the boat up to 5800 RPM and 44 mph, gauged with a GPS.<br /><br />I am now happy with the way it runs but not happy with the idle at all. It makes leaving the dock and no wake zone a *****.<br /><br />I should mention that the lake the mechanic tested on was approximately 1,500 to 2000 feet higher in elevation than the one I tested on.

 

[socalxr650]

Re: I need help BAD!

Originally posted by Dhadley:<br /> Lets start with the basics. Whats the model number? A 1986 175 is a 2.6 liter motor. The largest piston available, that I know of, is a .040 os. If it's bored to .045, we have a problem.<br /><br />If it's a 1985 175, thats a 2.5 liter block and there is a .044 os piston. If its bored to .045 that may be OK but we need to know exactly what motor you have and EXACTLY what it was bored to.<br /><br />Now, typically if the bulb is getting sucked flat that means the pump is pulling but there is a restriction forward of the bulb. Youve eliminated the vent but it could be a crimped line, too small a connection, clogged pick up etc.<br /><br />Also if the bulb is sucked flat theres no way to pump it by hand. Unless you stop and the bulb "opens" and then you can pump it. <br /><br />Silly question but -- is the bulb pointing in the right direction? Have you tried a different fuel supply?<br /><br />If the mechanic says it runs fine for him, tell him you want to go with him to see what hes doing differently. (I'd bet it doesnt run fine for him)<br /><br />Lets start by figuring out what motor you have. If the model number is gone look at the exhaust plates on the motor between the heads. Are they flat or is there a big hump?

The motor has a model plate on the back of the drive. It says the model # is J175TLC0. Which motor is this?<br /><br />As for the cylinder bore I was told .45 over. I can not verify this without talking to the mechanics again. However the motor is now running 100% better, NOT 100%, but better. This said I can not help but think that it has the proper piston for the bore.<br /><br />As for crimping, or obstructions in the fuel line, bulb direction, see above's answer. I will pull the pick-up out of the tank this weekend and check for tarnish etc..<br /><br />The motor was completely overhauled, down to a bare block. However, I had them use the same carbs and other accesories.<br />Thanks for the help guys.

 

[socalxr650]

Re: I need help BAD!

My final question for the evening. If I were to replace the carbs, is it ok to have the carbs rebuilt? Is this possible?<br /><br />If they are not rebuildable, what kind of cost am I looking at for 3 new carbs, and how hard is it to get the carbs in sync? I have delt with dual carbs on a 2 smoke before, and getting them synced is horrific!<br /><br />Thanks again guys!

 

[Walker]

Re: I need help BAD!

Before buying new ones I'd tear them down and given them a good soaking in carb cleaner, then blow them out with compressed air making sure to get every passageway and orifice sparkling clean. If water did indeed damage them beyond repair you will be able to see the corroded areas. If you don't see any damage then go ahead and buy kits and rebuild the carbs. <br />Also there is a size on the front of the carbs. Will be 1", 1&1/4" 1&3/8". What size carbs do you have. Need to know that before you buy if necessary.