Hydrofoil's are they any good

nickantanies

Cadet
Joined
Nov 24, 2003
Messages
26
I was wondering if anyone can help me out with this. I wanted to know if the hydorfoils you mount to outboard motors are any good. I wanted to have my boat plane off faster. Its a 18.5 center console with a 150 merc.<br />thanks<br />nick
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Hydrofoil's are they any good

Moving to General Outboard
 

walleyehed

Admiral
Joined
Jun 29, 2003
Messages
6,767
Re: Hydrofoil's are they any good

If you have your engine trimed fully in, against the pin stop in it's most fwd location and you still have problems planing, then yes, it will help.<br />When you do plane out, with a normal load, what is your wide open throttle RPM???
 

catfish1

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 23, 2003
Messages
683
Re: Hydrofoil's are they any good

nickantanies, yes a hydrofoil will help in getting on plane faster. there are other planeing devises that work better, but cost a little more, like smart tabs. i run smart tabs and i'd never go back to a hydrofoil!<br />btw, iboats sells nauticus smart tabs now. ;)
 

sloopy

Commander
Joined
Jul 12, 2002
Messages
2,999
Re: Hydrofoil's are they any good

Hydrofoils will give you extra lift in the stern, this will allow the boat to get on plane faster and be a little bit more level at the optimal trim position. On some small jon boats and unbalanced boats you will gain 1-5 mph at top end. Before you get a hydrofoil check and make sure that your anti ventilation plate is level with the bottom of the hull.
 

sloopy

Commander
Joined
Jul 12, 2002
Messages
2,999
Re: Hydrofoil's are they any good

O/T something with my grammer in the last post.. I can't fiqure out what it is... :rolleyes:
 

cobra 3.0

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Messages
1,797
Re: Hydrofoil's are they any good

I use the stingray hydrofoil on my 3.0 Cobra inboard for skiing. It planes the boat in 1/3 time and stops the nose from pointing to the moon! :D It adds great stability in turns too(less lean).
 

WillyBWright

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Dec 29, 2003
Messages
8,200
Re: Hydrofoil's are they any good

Just some thoughts FYI:<br /><br />In many cases, a hydrofoil will get you out of the hole faster.<br />If the hydrofoil remains in the water once you're on plane, it will slow you down.<br />If the hydrofoil remains in the water once you're on plane, it will affect your handling... sometimes negatively.<br />That eigth-of-an-inch thick cast aluminum it's mounted to will not support much weight. BAD idea on really big boats!<br />Boats with whaletails get snickered at in fishing tournaments!
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
1,682
Re: Hydrofoil's are they any good

nickantanies;<br /><br />Most people on this site already know that I am not a fan of hydrofoils, for a number of reasons. However you should also know that I have a proprietary interest in Smart Tabs. With that, make your own judgment regarding what I have to say. Unfortunately there are many misconceptions regarding boat performance, and my attempts to answer questions get lengthy. If I offend anyone, I am sorry, if your interested in an opinion read on, if not - - - move on to something else. <br /><br />With the popularity of the "V" hull design (when I was a kid the boats where flat in the back) came performance advantages such as faster boats, better ride through the waves, and better tracking. That is the plus side!<br /><br />The "V" design also made planing more difficult, increased the bow rise on acceleration as well as slow speeds, and increased the sensitivity to port / starboard listing.<br /><br />Most manufacturers provide tilt trim on the motor or out drive which uses the prop to help lift the stern during acceleration, facilitating planing.<br /><br />Given that stern drive (I/O's) and outboards powered boats are heavily weighted to the rear, the bow will rise on acceleration until there is enough water pressure (speed) to raise the stern (planing). Adding more surface area in the rear to help lift the boat and will facilitate planing.<br />The larger the surface the better control and easier it is to plane. <br /><br />The best solution is to use trim tabs which are adjustable, similar to flaps on airplane wings. The tabs should be size in proportion to the boat size to be effective. They also need to be adjustable. You need more deployment upon acceleration and little or none once on plane. <br /><br />Most boaters think that the benefit of trim tabs is simply to help get the boat on plane. This is only a small part of their benefit when used correctly. You can eliminate porpoising, chine walk (on fast boats), correct listing, control attitude in any seas, stay on plane at much lower speeds (good for towing tubes or in rough water), minimize bow rise at slow speeds (no wake zone), improve acceleration and Smart tabs will also improve top speed. In addition, the overall fuel economy will improve, and the stress on the engine will be reduced.<br /><br />The disadvantage with any fixed position devise such as hydrofoils or fixed plates and tabs is that they only provide improvement in one specific area of performance. For example, a fixed plate which is deployed to facilitate planing will impair the top end performance by causing excessive bow pressure which will result in bow steering. Once the boat is on plane the deployment is detrimental to performance.<br /><br />Hydrofoils, because of the limited size, provide marginal lift at low speeds, however once on plane, and at higher speeds (35 MPH+), they continue to lift creating a bow down issue (excessive bow pressure). Like fixed plates this results in bow steering, and lose of both economy and top speed. The economy is not effected (generally) at speeds below 30 MPH, because the speed has not produced the extra lift to push the bow down. <br /><br />It is not advisable to concentrate lift from the center of the boat (especially "V" hull designs) as with hydrofoils. This creates additional stress on the motor mounts and lower unit as well as a "teeter totter effect" with side to side movements and turns. <br /><br />The minimal surface area of the hydrofoil, which has marginal effect at slow speeds, becomes more influential at higher speeds (when lift is no longer required). Look at the bare foot water skier. They can not get up on their feet alone, but once the speed is fast their small foot prints are sufficient to support their weight (lift). Once on plane the boat does not need additional lift.<br /><br />Using the tilt trim on the motor simply uses the prop angle to help lift the boat. This is also marginally effective. The reason that the manufacturers (boat builders) prefer this on small fast boats is that it is safe, and less expensive than manually operated (helm controlled) trim tabs. A side note - Smart tabs are automatic and not driver controlled. <br /><br />Tilting the motor (prop) is not an efficient use of the prop torque (thrust). The most efficient angle for the prop is perpendicular to the water surface. Tilting in or out sacrifices the torque in favor (compromise) of the boat attitude. The prop is for propelling. Let the trim tabs control attitude. <br /><br />Changing prop pitch to achieve better acceleration and planing, will only sacrifice top speed, and run the engine faster than required. It's like driving around in first gear.<br /><br />Most boaters measure the performance of the boat by how quickly it will plane at near full throttle. Full throttle accelerations are costly in terms of fuel, and wear and tear on the engine. It is not necessary! With trim tabs (Smart Tabs) the boat can be accelerated slowly and rise to plane easily. Of course the full throttle accelerations will improve significantly also. <br /><br />In short, having a variable surface (attached to the hull) allows the hull design to change in direct proportion to the changing conditions of weight, speed, waves, etc. The improvement in performance, handling, ride comfort, and fuel efficiency is significant. Smart Tabs go one step further by automatically adjusting and acting like a vehicle suspension system when cruising. Smart Tabs are limited to boats under 22ft long.
 

catfish1

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 23, 2003
Messages
683
Re: Hydrofoil's are they any good

hey john! :D i'll be contacting you soon. ;)
 

cobra 3.0

Lieutenant Commander
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Messages
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Re: Hydrofoil's are they any good

My only gripe with trim tabs is the cost! It's a lot of money for two plates and a couple of springs.
 

catfish1

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 23, 2003
Messages
683
Re: Hydrofoil's are they any good

cobra, what have you been lookin at? smart tabs are well worth the money. i have 12x9's they are stainless steel, including all the hardware. the actuator is not a spring, it is a sealed gas shock on each tab. <br />go price a stainless steel hydrofoil and then compare it to smart tabs. stainless steel aint cheap!<br />
nauticus_tabs.jpg
<br /><br />9x8 kit is $124<br />12x9 kit is $166 all right here at iboats.
 

andrewkafp

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Mar 15, 2003
Messages
1,668
Re: Hydrofoil's are they any good

I fitted a hydrofoil on an 81 Merc50. I have to be honest and I am not real boat literate.. But I noticed little difference to anything except better steering at slow speeds. Without the foil it was like there was play in the steering with a delay or over-correction when trying to straighten her in a channel. The foil seems to help her go straight and that was my only expectation. The top speed of my 14.5 ft F/glass is about 30 knots and this has not changed since the addition of the foil. I would have thought the large OB manufacturers would have by now added them as "Standard" if they were that beneficial.. :confused:
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: Hydrofoil's are they any good

Keep in mind that fins are simply a tool that allow you to do something else (set-upwise) to increase efficiency. Kind of like a jack plate or a set back or a custom prop.
 

walleyehed

Admiral
Joined
Jun 29, 2003
Messages
6,767
Re: Hydrofoil's are they any good

I'm still waiting on an answer to the WOT RPM when you plane out....What is max Rpm for you????
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
1,682
Re: Hydrofoil's are they any good

Cobra;<br />The web site you looked at was one of our distributors in New Zealand. Our site is www.NauticusInc.com<br />You need to convert the New Zealand $ to USA $. You also need to consider the cost of the freight and duty. The list prices in the USA are $99.00 (small sets fro boats up to 12 ft.) $149.99 (medium sets for boats up to 15 to 16 ft.) and $199.99 (large sets for boat up to 22ft.)<br /><br />Hydraulic set iin New Zealand $ are over $1000.00, here they are $400 to $500.<br /><br />Happy New Year to All!
 

BillP

Captain
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Aug 10, 2002
Messages
3,290
Re: Hydrofoil's are they any good

I don't make or sell foils but have used them since the mid 80s. I frequently run a 24'cc with twin obs using hyd tabs in the ocean too. Each has it's place but neither does it all. The sales pitch post above kindasorta skips some points.<br /><br />Small underpowered boats and deep vee boats typically show the best results with a foil for getting on a plane fast. High powered flat bottom boats see the best results at high speeds with the motor trimmed up.<br /><br />IF the foil is mounted improperly it will stay in the water and MAY make a bow down situation at high speed. Trimming the engine can help and the angle of attack will overcome lift 99% of the time. On small boats you may want the foil to stay in so it is lifting all the time.<br /><br />IF the foil is mounted properly it rides above the water at high speeds (difficult to do on deep vees)and causes little or no drag. Then it does something tabs can't. It provides higher motor trimming, resulting in higher rpms and higer speeds. The foil keeps water around the prop and greatly reduces cavitation. Like Dhadley says, it acts like a jack plate. <br /><br />There is another thing foils do that tabs don't. Foils trim with the engine and will trim the bow up or down at slow speeds. Tabs do not trim the bow up unless the boat is just plain stern heavy.
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
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Messages
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Re: Hydrofoil's are they any good

BillP;<br /><br />Thank you for the response, but I was not attempting to create a sales pitch. I have been accused of that before because the boaters who have not tried the product can not believe the claimed results. But the claimed results are from "editorial tests" over the last three years from four of the five leading national boating magazines in the USA, and seven foreign magazines (five from Europe and one each in Australia and New Zealand.<br /><br />With regard to mounting the foils, the most popular are plastic and sandwich the anti cavitation plate. Some of the metal type that I have seen can be mounted above or below the anti cavitation plate. Given that they are fairly straight forward, the mounting leaves little room for error. <br /><br />Even if the top of the plate is above water the bottom surface is typically in contact with the water. This provides Lift. I have seen "splash plates on tunnel hull boats that are designed to direct the splashed water back down toward the prop. Because the water hits the plate, which is about six inches above the running surface, it still provides lift.<br /><br />I understand that a very fast boat can ride high enough to bring the foil above the water, but I am not talking about the 1% or 2% of the specialty boats. Nor am I talking about a Master Craft ski boat where the inboard engine is mid ship (we do not recommend the tabs for these boats). <br /><br />There is no question that the motor trim will become more effective if the surface of the anti ventilation plate is enlarged (via a foil) but if the bottom of the foil remains in contact with the water this added surface will create unneeded lift. <br /><br />If the boat is under powered, and can use all of the lift it can get just to stay on plane, then the foil will help, but these boats will benefit even more from trim tabs since their surface area is larger still. <br /><br />Please understand that their is a significant difference between and Active system and a manual system (Smart Tabs Vs Hydraulic/Electric). The amount of lift is constantly adjusted by the varying conditions of the boat (speed, load, water current, etc.) and the motor trim is more effective if needed because the lift is regulated so that there is a absolute maximum. A ridged plate will provide ever increasing lift as the speed of the boat is increased negating some of the effect of the tilt trim.<br /><br />By the way we do not make trim tabs for your 24' boat, and readily admit that the best solution for this size boat is manually adjusted tabs.<br /><br />Our concept is fairly new (five years) and the vast majority of people who challenge the claimed results have never tried them. Those who have swear by them.
 

walleyehed

Admiral
Joined
Jun 29, 2003
Messages
6,767
Re: Hydrofoil's are they any good

This is all great guys, but what if his WOT is only 4500 or so....The answer of hydrofoil OR trim tab is only a band-aid fix if this is the case...<br /><br /> PLEASE give max RPM now, at WOT....
 
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