Hydro-Electric 60HP Johnson Seal Kit Help

[Fox_Red131]

Needing to find a seal kit for my Johnson 60ESL-71C. I can't seem to find anything, if I do it's discontinued. Any help on getting it or where to find it would be great. Thanks.

 

[yorab]

Re: Hydro-Electric 60HP Johnson Seal Kit Help

If not available here at iboats, contact Dan Gano at ganotech.com. He has hard-to-find inventory and is a very reasonable guy to deal with.

 

[racerone]

Re: Hydro-Electric 60HP Johnson Seal Kit Help

That would be item ---18-2690 Sierra marine parts.----Likely available at a Napa auto parts dealer.

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: Hydro-Electric 60HP Johnson Seal Kit Help

That kit wont fit, you have to buy all parts piece by piece as Serria doesnt make a kit for those years...

 

[racerone]

Re: Hydro-Electric 60HP Johnson Seal Kit Help

Well, that kit is listed as being for the 1970 / 71 OMC 60 HP.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: Hydro-Electric 60HP Johnson Seal Kit Help

Fox -- If you can get hold of a NAPA marine catalogue, it can be generally helpful in addition to regular parts catalogues or diagrams. There are cross references toward the back, and pics of many or most of the replacement parts and kits. Catalogue can be a year or two old (which is probably the one they might part with anyway), as prices aren't shown.

 

[Fox_Red131]

Re: Hydro-Electric 60HP Johnson Seal Kit Help

Thanks Oldboat--I have a Napa Marine at work and called in on some parts today and they said that there were none anywhere that they could see. I have managed to snag part numbers for what I want, so I guess I'll just order individually.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: Hydro-Electric 60HP Johnson Seal Kit Help

yeah, keep working at the catalogue. I think I happened to hit the local store up at a time when a new addition had just come out. Also helps to catch a parts person in a generous mood.

postscript: (sorry -- saying you have the catalogue, I guess, or have one available. all good.)

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: Hydro-Electric 60HP Johnson Seal Kit Help

You could be right as the marineengine seirra catalouge shows it but when I login on my Teleflex dealer network it does not show that kit.


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[Fox_Red131]

Re: Hydro-Electric 60HP Johnson Seal Kit Help

Alright so the seals came in, everything looks as though it's the right size. My dilemma now is that the old seals are baked in there and the ones that I have tried to remove just has the rubber sticking to the metal now. I've got three seals to replace with the spring in the middle. One on the impeller cover housing, and two which are stacked upside down on each other in the bearing housing/seal assembly. At the moment I have some penetrating oil on the parts just letting it soak in behind the seals hopefully so I can pop them out. Wondering if anyone has any tricks for getting these old seals out as I'm sure I'm not the first one to encounter this. I just figure the metal is extremely fragile being so old so I don't want to manhandle it and break it like I used to on everything else!! :facepalm:

 

[guardian452]

Re: Hydro-Electric 60HP Johnson Seal Kit Help

Hi there:
You say your going to replace gear case seals "One on the impeller cover housing, and two which are stacked upside down on each other in the bearing housing/seal assembly".

Are you not going to replace all of the drive shaft and prop shaft seals?

I have an old Johnson 85hp Hydroelectric motor which has a gear case very similar to your 60hp Hydroelectric, and when I first got it I had a problem with water getting into to gear oil. After researching the problem on this forum, I purchased a seal kit (probably a Sierra kit, but I can't remember now) and replaced both sets of seals in the bearing housing just below the water pump, and the prop shaft seals in the prop bearing housing. I also replaced the nylon washers for the Drain and Filler plugs. I didn't bother replacing the solenoid housing cover gasket or the solenoid shaft seals.

When I first inspected the top seal in the upper bearing housing, it was clearly in need of replacement as it was dry and cracked. I assumed the prop shaft seals were in similar state as they should have been the same age.

I pressure tested the gear case with good results, and now that the boat is finally back in the water (after many years in dry dock) all is good after 30 hours of running.

As for seal removal, they shouldn't pop out. These seals are a light press fit, so it'll take a little bit of careful effort to get them out. You should also find that they've been installed with a sealant, but I'm not sure if that will cause any additional effort for removal.

You say "the old seals are baked in there and the ones that I have tried to remove just has the rubber sticking to the metal now".
Are you talking about the rubber portion of the seal which is bonded to a metal outer housing? The rubber seal and metal housing are an assembly, and are removed together.

This was some time ago for me, but I think I used a combination of gentle prying for the outer seals, and very careful punching for the inner seals. Just take your time, hold the housings securely, and work your way around the circumference of the seal while only moving it in little increments. Try to keep any tools you use inside the seal, so it takes the damage of removal and not the mating surfaces of the housing. Don't worry if the seals are damaged during removal. They're only designed to be installed once so removal will always kill them.

Good Luck.

 

[Fox_Red131]

Re: Hydro-Electric 60HP Johnson Seal Kit Help

Thanks for the help Guardian. All the seals are out and have been replaced now. I made a fitting to get from the 3/8 plug and fill hole thread to a schrader valve so I can fill it and am currently building an inline gauge so I can see if it'll hold the pressure.

While I was in there I have noticed that the two lead wires running into the electronic shift have been badly frayed and have been rubbing together, they're nearly broken. I have a funky rubber plug holding them in and I can't for the life of me figure out how to pull the rubber out so I can cut and replace the shorting sections of wire. It's a almost an hour glass shape with a plug on one end...it's dang near impossible to get it out. Any ideas?

 

[guardian452]

Re: Hydro-Electric 60HP Johnson Seal Kit Help

Hi Fox.
If you see two individual wires going into the solenoid cover, you have a major problem. This shift cable assembly is supposed to be a one piece molded assembly with the two wires protected inside. Have a look at the parts diagram for your motor at Envinrude.com.

Are these wires loose all of the way to the power head or does the outer jacket resume somewhere along the length of the harness?

Without seeing a picture, I'd say that some of the original rubber covering has broken away leaving the inside wires unprotected, and that funky rubber plug in the solenoid housing cover is a remnant of the original covering.

If wire insulation has worn off, and bare wire is showing just above the solenoid housing cover, I suspect you've had water seeping into the solenoid housing through the wires as this is below the waterline.

If the rubber went hard due to old age, I doubt there's any trick to getting that rubber plug out of the solenoid housing cover without damaging it and the wires in some way. I doubt you'd be able to remove the wires as they should be molded to this rubber plug.

You could try some sort of lubricant and heat, and maybe compressed air, but I doubt these were easy things to remove even when factory fresh.

I'd look into finding a used cable in good condition. It might be a good idea to request that it come with the solenoid housing cover to avoid possible damage due to difficult removal.

If there's enough wire protruding from the top of the solenoid cover, you could try splicing in a section of new marine wire, but you'll have to protect the splices with some sort of covering like heat shrink tubing with lots of waterproof sealant inside. In addition, you'll have to cover both wires with some sort of protection like self fusing rubber tape and make sure this goes well above the water line.

You could try making your own wire harness with good marine grade wire, but potting the harness into the solenoid cover may be a problem. The potting compound will have to be rated for below the water line, and it will have to hold under the positive and negative air pressure caused by the heat cycling of the gear case when its being run. (that's why you have double, back to back seals on the prop shaft and drive shaft, and why you're supposed to do a vacuum test as well as a pressure test after replacing seals).

 

[Fox_Red131]

Re: Hydro-Electric 60HP Johnson Seal Kit Help

That was the news I didn't want to hear! The wire was broken at the base of the rubber plug only, and resumes fine above. What I did was remove the terminals going to the solenoid and pulled the wire through the plug. I was able to run two new wires through the plug but of course it isn't holding pressure as it's leaking out the plug and around my newly run wire as well. I agree completely with the waterproofing, but do you think I can put a sealant of some kind above and below the plug hoping to seal it up tightly?

 

[guardian452]

Re: Hydro-Electric 60HP Johnson Seal Kit Help

You have nothing to lose by trying. If it doesn't work, you'll know soon enough when you do your pressure test and sea trial. If it works, I'd still consider it a temporary fix and start looking for a proper replacement. I'd also be checking that gear oil after every outing until it looks like a long term fix.

One thing I might try to help promote the bonding of the sealant to the wires and rubber plug would be to lightly roughen all bonding surfaces with a medium fine grit abrasive. This also includes the inside of the holes in the rubber plug as well as the top and bottom surfaces of the plug. I wouldn't sand along the length of the wire, but rather spin the wire in the abrasive to make little scratches around the wire insulation. Kinda like little circular ridges.

I'd clean/degrease all surfaces that were sanded, and then thoroughly coat the wires with sealant and pre-fill the holes in the rubber plug with sealant. After carefully passing the wires through the plug, I'd coat the top and bottom of the plug with a nice dollop of sealant around the wires and let it sit until thoroughly cured.

If you can get the sealant to permanently bond to the wires and the rubber plug, I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Good luck.

 

[Fox_Red131]

Re: Hydro-Electric 60HP Johnson Seal Kit Help

Well....
No luck! The goop I put in there did slow the process of leaking but it did eventually leak out. So I'm on the hunt now for that shift cable, found it for around $100 but wanted to see if anyone on here might have a spare lower unit with one still attached and in good shape. I guess ideally I'd like the solenoid cover with it so I don't have to try to tug that rubber plug through again. Any help is greatly appreciated! Thanks.

 

[guardian452]

Re: Hydro-Electric 60HP Johnson Seal Kit Help

Sorry to hear this didn't work for you. I can't imagine sealing these wires is that hard since you're parts should be a very close fit and and the surface area you're trying to seal is very small.

If shifting rods can be sealed below the water line with a few "O" rings, I don't see why you can't permanently seal two wires into the solenoid cover? Are you sure the leak is in the cable entry area of the cover?

If this was me, (which it could be any season now!) there's a few more things I'd look into. One would be to look at the cover and see if there's enough metal to install an NPT style barbed hose fitting with just enough ID to accommodate the shift wires. With a hose fitting installed into the solenoid cover, you'd then thread your new shift wires through the hose fitting and then slip a length thin walled hose over the wires and down onto the barbs. Make the hose long enough to reach up above the waterline. Then using a caulking gun with the right sealant, carefully force sealant down the hose past the hose fitting. Once cured, you should have an assembly that can easily handle the modest pressure and vacuum of the crank case, and have shift wires protected by an outer jacket similar to the original cable.

If there's not enough metal in the cover to mount a hose fitting, perhaps a good filler epoxy like Marine Tex could be used to re-enforce the area?

It just something I'd look at because if it could work, you'd never have to buy another shift wire assembly again.

Or you could just look for a replacement cable.

Good luck Fox.

 

[Fox_Red131]

Re: Hydro-Electric 60HP Johnson Seal Kit Help

Now that is one heck of an idea! I believe I have enough metal to tap and fit a barb in there, I especially like the idea of an outer jacket on it. I sprayed soap and water on the area and it was bubbling so I know that it was my leak spot. When I get a second I'm going to clean up what I've done already and go for it. Truth be told, I know I didn't use a very good product for the specific application--I just used permatex gasket maker because it was handy at the house. I think by doing what you've suggested and using the correct sealant I think it'll work as well. How much hose do you think it'll take to get me above the water line?

 

[Fox_Red131]

Re: Hydro-Electric 60HP Johnson Seal Kit Help

Everything is finished and the lower unit is buttoned up. We've had tons of rain the last few days so I'll be testing everything out today. Took advantage of some bad weather to re-wire all my accessories up to my new switch panel. Got an aerator, cabin lighting, and a CD player wired in as additional accessories so I'm pretty excited. Things are looking good! Pressure test did good in the basement on the lower unit so I'm going to run some ATF through before I fill up with my Type C. I'm crossing my fingers that the shorted wire I found and fixed may just fix my sporadic reverse problem. I'll let ya know! Thanks again for the idea with the barb and tubing, it may not win a beauty contest but it appears to be functional and for that I thank ya!