Hub seal question

mnosbor

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Jul 18, 2006
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I am rebuilding all 4 hubs. I have Reliable torsion axles with sure lube hubs and drum brakes.

I managed to find the correct bearings, the trailer parts dealer gave me a kit with the bearings and a double lip seal.

The question I have is the original seal is transcom and is fully rubber coated and the ones in the kits have metal outers.

My concern is with the sure lube system refreshing the grease puts pressure on the seal before it comes out the weep hole in the axle.

If the new seals arent fully rubber will they weep grease out between the hub and outer metal part of the seal?

Im having a hard time tapping them into the hubs anyway they seem kind of flimsy but the trailer parts dealer hasnt been any help.
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: Hub seal question

The rubber is there for a reason. It is to hasten the seal edge bonding with the axle via heat, water, etc.
If you want to go cheap-Chinese-NAPA, you'll be OK as long as you don't ignore them. Otherwise the metal outer edge will "bond" with your hubs.

You can overgrease wheels. Boat trailer wheels are going to "puke" grease, no matter what you do. It's the heat differential-(road vs. cold water).

I'm a neat nick. I can't stand a spot of gease on wheels.
I take precautions though. I back the trailer in SLOWLY. That gives the tires/wheels/hubs to equalize temps. Thus no grease-"puke".

The aftermarket seals you bought offer double lip-great! The "double lip" is a marketing ploy, They're making up for the REAL reason. That is hub siezure, of the seal outer rim,.IMHO.

I've NEVER had a bearing failure-EVER!
I
 

roscoe

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Oct 30, 2002
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21,745
Re: Hub seal question

Found this info:

The grease seals that are used in the hubs equipped with the Sure Lube System must be a "Transcom" Brand of grease seal. These seals can be purchased direct from the factory. These seals should not be cross-referenced over to another brand of seal if they are being used in the Sure Lube System.

http://www.reliabletool.com/products/r2500lb.htm
 

mnosbor

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Jul 18, 2006
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Re: Hub seal question

I called Reliable a while ago to verify what part#s because this axle was specially made for the trailer. They gave me the incorrect seal size but also told me transcom didnt need to be used.

But after taking the hubs apart and seeing the difference in the seals and also your description of the difference between the rubber and metal I see I would prefer the rubber coated seals.

I havent been able to find transcom seals online they are 15192TC it did reference the Tie-down brand and they are rubber coated, northern tool seems to be the only distributor and they are not in stock.

It may be I put in the metal seals for the rest of the season and put the rubber ones in later.
 

bruceb58

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Re: Hub seal question

You won't get grease-puke by dumping hot hubs in cold water. You are more likely to ingest water, though, as the grease and air inside the hub contracts.

Double lip is not a marketing ploy. A single lip seal keeps dirt from passing through the seal into the hub. A second lip facing the other way is necessary because marine hubs are usually positive pressure and are needed to keep the grease from leaving the hub.
 

bruceb58

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Re: Hub seal question

Not if you buy the correct OD seal!

mnosbor said:
If the new seals arent fully rubber will they weep grease out between the hub and outer metal part of the seal?
 

mnosbor

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Re: Hub seal question

Thanks bruceb58

I decided to go ahead with the metal seals.

I have a question about sure lube or ez lube systems, how often do you need to give it a shot of lube through the zerk?

I have through this experience come to the conclusion that the so called grease exchange is not good enough for over the winter storage in spite of the manufactures recommendations.

Hopefully everything goes back together ok and that the hubs overheating was infact a combo of grease incompatibility and pitted bearings and not brake related because I cant find anything amiss with the brake system. I guess well see.
 

bruceb58

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Re: Hub seal question

What problems were you having?

In theory, you never have to add grease unless the grease is leaving the hub and/or you didn't fill it completely the first time
 

mnosbor

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Jul 18, 2006
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Re: Hub seal question

This is my sad story :love: Ill try to make it short.

We have a 2002 pontoon trailer it has dual torsion axles made by reliable especially for this trailer the boat is 6" wider than standard. We also had them add brakes because we used to tow with our mini van which was rated for 3500lbs towing the boat +trailer +engine comes to about 2800lbs. so dont worry about that part.

We didnt take the boat out for about 2yrs, I had to work weekends. The trailer was lubed by the marina the last time so I have no idea what grease they put in it, it came out worm brown so Im guessing it was red.

This year we were able to take the boat out so when I was getting supplies for the outboard they recommended the OMC trailer bearing grease, it does say this on their website> Your outboard isn't the only thing that requires adequate lubrication. Extreme Pressure WHEEL-BEARING GREASE is designed specifically for boat trailer wheel bearings, heavily loaded bearings and areas where water exists. It provides excellent protection in severe conditions - it won't thin down and run out of bearings, and won't wash out in fresh or salt water.

So I pumped a complete exchange through each hub about 3/4 of a large tube or over 100 pumps. Checked the brakes acording to the manual for the surge brakes. The manual also said that you only had to exchange the grease not remove and repack.

It also has loadstar 90psi tires on it, I had written in the book that the trailer manufacturer said 85 they actually had 88psi, I am also not sure where the psi should be but the trailer place where I got the bearings said 90psi.

We went out the first time the hubs were varying in temp but not too hot to touch, also we had changed tow rigs and the truck was actually towing lower than the van at hitch height so we had to make an adjustment to that before the next time out. This trailer is heavy at the tongue the van handled it better than my big Silverado.

We went out again same variations in hub temps but not too hot.

The third time on the way back from the marina one of the front hubs (a warmer one) was blistering hot and boiling out grease out the weep hole in the back of the axle, the tire was smoking (good thing they werent carlisle)

It was dark and come to find out no jack for the trailer made it onto the truck. So we waited about 2hrs and started the 8miles home going about 20mph. We stopped at about 2 miles and the hubs were still cold so we kept going at 20mph till we were about 2 miles from home thy were still cold, I was curious to see if they would heat up again if we went 40 they got a little warm again.

When we started tearing into thing we found the wheel to drag but not crunchy or noisy we didnt mess with the brakes then because the hub seal was probably blown from the boiling grease.

Pulled the hubs off found the bearings fully in tact rolling but teribly pitted from rust, the cups had marks in them like the bearings slid then stopped but not scored like they were drug through the cups. The seal had blown.

The brakes looked ok Im not a brake person so its going to be hit and miss on that, one compared to the other it looks similar. Wont know until we get the hubs back together. They are hydraulic drum brakes.

After all this I still dont know if it was the brakes or the bearings. The bearings were pitted though and would have needed replacement anyway.

A far as the sure lube system, can we trust it for overwintering if we do a complete grease exchange at the end of the season? If so when do you decide to go in to check bearings?

Also the trailer dealer said we can use a 50psi tire as a spare, it is the same manufacturer just not as many plies as the 90psi we have now. Im trying to track down the correct tire locally and having no luck, ill order it but have to wait 3wks or so for it.

Well if youve gotten this far thanks for reading my novel, any words of wisdom are appreciated.

Marcie
 

tommays

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Re: Hub seal question

f3fddd08.jpg



With regular matiance i get between 1 and 9 years out of a set of bearings ONCE a littel bit of water gets in there it will pit the bearings no matter what kinda of grease you use


If you have drum brakes or disks the cylinders tend to stick and also require matiance to avoide on the road problems

Take apart clean put back on :)

Tommays
 

bruceb58

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Re: Hub seal question

Could be a number of things:

1) Bearings were tightened too tight.
2) Brake was dragging
3) Actuauter was applying brakes all the time.

If it was just one hub, I would suspect #2 especially since it has been sitting for 2 years. Brake wheel cylinders rust if they aren't being used. Newer wheel cylinders are aluminum so they don't corrode as easily.

When everything is back together, apply the brakes manually at the actuater while spinning the wheel. After releasing the actuater, see if the brake is dragging.

Before every season I check my bearings and my brakes...very good practice.
 

mnosbor

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Re: Hub seal question

We had checked them but our lack of knowledge may have caused us to miss any dragging. Or it could have just become worse over time.

It was the front hub on one side and the rear on the other side the rear was not as bad.

Is there any cleaning/lubing that can be done to the cylinders? Is there anything to check with the hub off?

As far as the picture above thats about what the cups looked like.
 

tommays

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6,768
Re: Hub seal question

If you have never worked on drum brakes it will be a bit hard :)

You need a brake spring tool to remove the BIG springs so the boot can be removed from the wheel cylinder

Then you can clean and lube the piston in the cylinder and put the shoes back on

you will will have to bleed the brakes to get the air out after this

P5241727.JPG


You fresh water guys are luckey theses brakes are only 9 months old in saltwater :(
 

bruceb58

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Re: Hub seal question

Wheel cylinders need to be replaced if they are corroded. Useless to try and repair. often it is easier and cheaper to just buy a whole brake assembly.

Here are new brake assemblies:

http://www.championtrailers.com/DRUM BRAKE CLUSTERS.htm

Here are new aluminum wheel cylinders:

http://www.championtrailers.com/DRUM BRAKE COMPONENTS.htm

When you initialy packed the bearings with grease, did you do it by hand, use a grease packing tool or just rely on the sure lube hub to do it? If it was the latter, that could be why your hubs burnt up.
 

mnosbor

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Jul 18, 2006
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Re: Hub seal question

We relied on sure lube to do it.

When I replaced the bearings tihs time I repacked them by hand as well as ran about a half of a large tube of grease through them while rotating the wheel.

In the fall (if we ever get the boat in the water) will I need to disasemble and repack before storage?

As far as the brakes, I dont think I can make an accurate judgement until we can move the boat and let the system go back into place.

Theyre free backing brakes and right now the 2 front hubs are freespinning completely the left front I havent touched yet and the rear hubs are dragging where if you give it a shove it will free spin about 6in then stop.

If they are out of adjustment I would feel better trying to get them adjusted after everythings had a chance to go back into place, also where the trailer is it was backed in and pulled forward several feet and on gravel.

This has been so discouraging I would rather undertake this work with a better knowledge of a working system. We were unable to get the trailer to a service shop with it the way it was.

Im hoping to at least get it well enough that if I cant get the brakes that I can get it somewhere that can.
 

bruceb58

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Re: Hub seal question

That is probably your main problem.

mnosbor said:
We relied on sure lube to do it.

You only have to re-pack if water gets in.
 
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