How to tell if surge brakes are working....

[kayakndave]

Hi everyone. How do you tell if surge brakes are working? I have a 23' Imperial WAC boat on a tandem axle trailer with surge brakes that I pull with a F250 Diesel. It doesn't really feel as though the brakes on the trailer are working. I really have to apply pressure to the brake pedal when stopping. The trailer was bought new a little over a year ago. I also have a 27' travel trailer that I pull that has electric brakes, and I can tell a big difference in the way it stops. Is there an adjustment on the surge brakes at the tongue, or at the hubs that I could take a look at? Any and all help appreciated!

 

[BinLurkin]

Re: How to tell if surge brakes are working....

That's a good question Dave. I'll be waiting for an answer to this myself. They are not like the electric brakes on my horse trailers. I, like you can hardly tell if the surge brakes work either. The only way I was sure was once I had to hit the brakes hard & I looked in the rear view mirror & saw smoke comming off the traler tires. It's easy to pull the wheels though just to see what shape the brakes are in & if they look like they are working.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: How to tell if surge brakes are working....

Every now and then I use the reverse lock and try them out on a deserted stretch of road. If they are working, you definetly feel the difference.<br /><br />Aldo

 

[BinLurkin]

Re: How to tell if surge brakes are working....

Aldo, if I never need to engage the reverse lockout I presume my brakes need attention. I actually forgot about that feature on my trailers. Don't mean to hi-jack your post, Dave.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: How to tell if surge brakes are working....

If, when reversing, your trailer brakes don't begin to come on - you have a problem. Of course the amount they come on depends on how quickly you are reversing. Idling down a ramp shouldn't activate the brakes because the boat is actually pulling the car. Try backing up a slight hill and the brakes should start to come on to the point where it feels like you've left the handbrake on. My tandem 23ft will all but lock up the brakes if I reverse with any sort of accelleration (not idling). The surge coupling is load sensitive, 3 ton of boat will push harder than 2 ton of boat therfore the adjustment and spring load should be done in the factory according to individual usage requirments.<br /><br />Aldo <br /><br />Aldo

 

[BinLurkin]

Re: How to tell if surge brakes are working....

Yes, I figured that, on the downhill ramps. I have a 22 footer. I always go gently when going backwards. I think I better "Try backing up a slight hill and the brakes should start to come on to the point where it feels like you've left the handbrake on." Might find out sooner that way than looking in the rear view mirror while sliding into disaster. Thanks for the tip Dun.

 

[cp]

Re: How to tell if surge brakes are working....

Not all surge brakes have a reverse lockout. Some drum brakes have a "free backing" feature where the shoes mechanically slip when the wheel is rotating backward. kayakndave - If you have the reverse lockout feature like BinLurkin and Dunaruna, great, you're home free . If not then you might have to jack up one side at a time, then have someone spin the wheel while the master cylinder piston is pushed at the coupler. The spinning wheel should very quickly stop; if it doesn't, you should take the drum off and check that the wheel cylinder is not frozen. Repeat for the other side. (All this presumes that you've previously verified that your master cylinder is properly filled with brake fluid and there's no air or leaks in the hydraulic lines.) There aren't any adjustments at the coupler, but the individual wheels have adjustments for the shoes if you've got drum brakes. Good luck.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: How to tell if surge brakes are working....

Maybe our couplers are different down under. The preload on the piston spring can be adjusted and the spring itself can be changed to a different load rating. The master cylinder push rod length is adjustable as is the freeplay between the coupler piston and the master cylinder push rod arm. Maybe our couplers are different.<br /><br />Aldo

 

[BinLurkin]

Re: How to tell if surge brakes are working....

Sounds like they are different to me. Mine must have all had the free backing feature. I've taken all of them apart at the master cylinder at least & haven't noticed any adjustments. But it sounds like a good idea to me. Leave it to the Aussies to come up with that. Good job mate. Regards, Been.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: How to tell if surge brakes are working....

We're usually 5 year behind new inovations .<br /><br />My trailer is very old but my coupler is very common. I beginning to suspect we are talking about completely different systems. If I get a moment I'll take a picture and post it.<br /><br />Aldo

 

[cp]

Re: How to tell if surge brakes are working....

Originally posted by Dunaruna:<br /> The preload on the piston spring can be adjusted and the spring itself can be changed to a different load rating. The master cylinder push rod length is adjustable as is the freeplay between the coupler piston and the master cylinder push rod arm.

What you describe sounds like parts that'd be common to most couplers, but doing that ain't adjusting...it's remodeling ! Adjusting's something simple, like turning that star wheel inside the drum on the wheels . Maybe you're just more mechanical than the rest of us; all the instructions I've seen for maintaining, installing, adjusting couplers/master cylinders don't mention ever doing that remodeling, nor does there seem to be different springs offered in the parts listings. But thanks for the good info...nice to keep in mind if ever need to do something like that .

 

[MIKE F]

Re: How to tell if surge brakes are working....

Do you have drum, or disc brakes?

 

[kayakndave]

Re: How to tell if surge brakes are working....

Good advice guys. I think I do have the reverse lock out feature. I have a pin that slides in place at the coupler that allows you to reverse without the brakes activating. Think I would need to remove the pin in order to check the brakes while backing up a slight incline. Think I'll give it a shot....Thanks All!

 

[tommays]

Re: How to tell if surge brakes are working....

if you really want to see if they are working just jack up one wheel and spin it this will give you and idea if they are draging and is how they recomend doing the manual adjustment on the brake shoe clearence.<br />on you coupler there is a place to drop in a bar or screwdriver and manualy pump the master cylinder if your brakes are working the wheel will stop and should spin freely again right away check both wheels and you will have a good idea if you have any function.<br /><br />i dont no how old your brakes are but mine need some TLC every season to keeping working properly and its a good idea to take a look to see how much brake shoe you have left a sticking wheel cyl will go through shoes in no time.<br /><br />one last thought the brake fluid passes through a very tiny hole on the coupler which keeps the brakes from reacting as fast as electric brakes do and it also clogs very easely if you brake fluid has goten rusty<br /><br />tommays

 

[jlinder]

Re: How to tell if surge brakes are working....

Anyone know of a good primer for surge brakes? I think mine are working, but not sure on how well.<br /><br />When going from a stop to starting up again (think red light) I somtimes have a clunk that makes me think the brake is releasing in a jump, not a smooth release. Not sure if this is normal or something needs to be worked on.

 

[Solittle]

Re: How to tell if surge brakes are working....

Jack - The clunk you are hearing is normal and indicated that your actuator is working properly. It is the sound of the coupler sliding forward - it compresses when you stop - hence surge brakes.<br /><br />For what it is worth you should be able to jack up a wheel & test the brakes by spinning the wheel & pulling on the emergency stop lever.<br /><br />Also in the double what it is worth category - The only kind of brakes I have any confidence in for salt water is disk brakes. Drum brakes rust up (even with the fresh water flush kit) real quick.

 

[jlinder]

Re: How to tell if surge brakes are working....

SoLittle,<br /><br />Thanks for the reply. My concern is that I have the brakes working well.<br /><br />My boat and trailer had spent a number of years without TLC. So I wouldn't call what I am doing a restoration, but I am going through everything to either make it more reliable, repair the little things that are broken, add safety equipment, or just restore the appearance. <br /><br />In doing so I am also working on learning as much as I can about everything I can.