How start generator for test, removed and need to bypass Kohler safety switches ?

[firebird1158]

Hey guys , I had my Kohler 6.5ESZ generator removed last year on winterization to diagnose it not running after start switch released and thought it would be a simple hook up to battery and it would run on bench.... not so. The guy who removed it had snipped all the attached wires to remove it and wondering if something needs to be wired differently to get it to crank?? It just makes a weird noise and can hear fuel pump sucking but no crank. I burned the input fuse holding it for couple of seconds and tapping selnoid and starter... replaced. .. tried crossing the selnoid to starter with screwdriver and it cranked so has to be a wiring/or selnoid maybe.

Should it just start with neg and positive hooked to battery on bench? I know there is supposed to be one wire also that I can unhook to bypass the oil, exhaust,water sensors so you can diagnose but can't find where it is anywhere... search for hours now and people talk about it but nobody wants to tell where it is. need to figure out if it is putting out AC ,test voltage regulator, rotating diode looks ok.... all parts still there anyway!

Thanks for any help, could also use the service manual if anyone has it tp5810 is number but cant find it anywhere

 

[alldodge]

While not an expert on the Gen I do have one (4KW) in my cruiser and have done some work on it. The wiring for mine will run with or without the remote panel connected. Have a the guy (moron) that removed it by clipping wires did you no favor. There is a connector which only needs to be unplugged (J3). Everything else on the Gen is self contained. AC Output comes directly off the main breaker.

12VDC comes direct from to the starter solenoid to the main fuse in the control panel. If your blowing this fuse start by looking for wires that have been cut and are touching something

 

[gm280]

WOW, I have never worked on your particular model generator, but I have worked extensively on my neighbor's Onan 4kw generator. However, like AllDodge stated, I would be really surprised if you couldn't run it as a self contained generator. Meaning it doesn't have to be associated with anything else to work...other then a fuel tank and a battery to get things going that is. I will say this, on my neighbor's generator, there are so many sensors and protection things that unless it is in perfect condition, it will never ever fire. You did say that you could jumper the starter solenoid and it would run. So obviously there is something squelching the control to actually start it. So start tracing the wires to see what it missed... Try to find out where all the CUT wires went to and see if you need to supply one of those functions to allow it to crank. Without a good schematic to look at, I can't offer much other ideas than that... :sorry:

 

[firebird1158]

No Title

Here is a pic of snipped wires, the three white wires are N , 43 and 47... thinking they are for the remote start button but are from the wire that goes back to boat, the 3 taped off wires are a mystery, obviously the guy didn't remove them from anything as they would not be taped just snipped! So the generator hooked to a battery should start.... I removed the starter and cleaned connections that were pretty rusty, going to put it back on tomorrow and hopefully if fires up.... still trying to find out how to bypass the safety switches.... thanks for responses

 

[alldodge]

Having trouble seeing some of the connections but identified what I think the three are. As for the wires going to the remote panel, they should all come from one connector and there should be more then three

 

[firebird1158]

Well starter will not engage or click.... diagnosed as bad solenoid as crossed over positve with screwdriver and she spins, tested and ground and power at all terminals.... never had that problem last year when removed... so I'll get that installed tomorrow hopefully and then back to original issue of starting and stalling... maybe it will fire and run!! that would be nice! At least i've had time to touch up paint and change oil and impeller while i'm waiting for parts. And I did finally find a post that shows where the safety bypass wire is and disconnects. Thanks for the help guys

 

[alldodge]

Good to hear, and hope the rest are simple issues.

find a post that shows where the safety bypass wire is and disconnects

Where did you find this?

 

[firebird1158]

Well I got the solenoid on and now I am back to wear I started last year! it starts but stalls upon releasing the start button. I unhooked the safety ground and it started and ran fine but stalls as soon as hooked back up. So the safeties I assume are all open and close to ground which stalls motor??? I unhooked each wire from the oil pressure, and exhaust temp and it still stalls.... What and where are the other safeties?? Thanks in advance.

 

[firebird1158]

Good to hear, and hope the rest are simple issues.


Where did you find this?

It was actually a youtube video of same generator and guy pointed out the safety bypass wire in it, a bullet connect wire that is under heat exchanger and goes to the coil I think, once unhooked and started though you can not stop motor untill you hook it back up.

 

[alldodge]

Well I got the solenoid on and now I am back to wear I started last year! it starts but stalls upon releasing the start button. I unhooked the safety ground and it started and ran fine but stalls as soon as hooked back up. So the safeties I assume are all open and close to ground which stalls motor??? I unhooked each wire from the oil pressure, and exhaust temp and it still stalls.... What and where are the other safeties?? Thanks in advance.

Sounds as the run relay is not staying energized. The relay gets pulled in once the engine starts. The other points which will stop the engine is the High Water Temp sensor and anti-diesel solenoid. HWT sensor on mine is inline between the heat exchanger and the engine head (thermostat housing). The anti-diesel is under the carb.

 

[firebird1158]

Ok thanks, I will try to test those as well, anyone know how to test the voltage regulator? I read somewhere that will stall it as well????

Thanks

 

[alldodge]

According to the manual there are 6 things which can cause your issue, (will not keep running when start button is released)
No Gen AC output
No/low oil pressure
Defective low oil pressure safety shutdown switch
High Temp shutdown
Defective high exhaust temp safety shutdown switch HET
Defective high water safety shutdown switch HWT

They group HET and HWT together

As for the regulator, start the engine with your AC meter on the output and get a reading to see what you have.

If you have no AC output then check
DC power to controller
Controller fuse blown'
Capacitor or internal fault

 

[firebird1158]

Thanks AllDodge , I don't think it was putting out AC when it was in the boat when holding the start button to keep it running... but wasn't sure if it would only put out AC when it was fully started and start button released. I replaced the capacitor 2 years ago as it would only run with a load on it which was an easy diagnosis.

I am going to disconnect the safety shut off wire again and let it run while checking for ac output, As for the other sensors, if you disconnect the wire from the sensor so it isn't grounded that should identify which sensor is defective right??? Thanks again for the help.

 

[alldodge]

As for the other sensors, if you disconnect the wire from the sensor so it isn't grounded that should identify which sensor is defective right???

It is my understanding in review or the schematic as a non-expert that each of the sensors provide a ground when a fault happens. So by disconnecting them the gen should keep running. Connecting them one at a time will identify which is the issue and if there is a problem.

 

[firebird1158]

Well It runs fine with safety disconnected but i have no AC output as suspected. I had replaced the capacitor with a 40uf a couple years ago and don't think it would be that but will test it too. My question is how do you test the voltage regulator? and i read somewhere that you can test the stator without disassembly but didn't say how??? Thanks for the help guys! I may bet to make a pina colada with the blender yet!

 

[alldodge]

Here is a link which these guys discuss the regulator
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72708