How hard to flip a 4.3 Chevy/OMC long block??

[4Winns2]

Boat: 1990 Four Winns Freedom 195 with a 4.3 litre OMC

Some of you may recall my post from last week: Seized engine or starter issue???

Decided to pay a local marine to look at it. Pulled the drive, cranked the pulley and she's set up. Pulled the heads and pistons looked fine with some water in the oil. He is diagnosing that I spun the crankshaft bearings. He is pulling the oil filter to see if he can find any shavings within.

I can pick a long block for $1,840.00 and it would cost about a $900 to 1k in labor to flip the engines and good components (which most if not all are good).

I haven't look in the service manual yet, but how hard is it to flip engines. I can borrow a garage to winch the engine out and in but I'm wondering if I'm asking for more than 1k worth of troubles? Crying in my beer right now with this new found news. Pissed off because this is will be the second engine in four years- -last one had a cracked block- - on a 1990 boat (which is really good condition).

 

[danond]

Re: How hard to flip a 4.3 Chevy/OMC long block??

It's not hard. Basic hand tools and label everything. Your lift has to be pretty friggin tall, so find someone with an A-frame style lift. The guys doing it with cherry pickers are tempting fate and/or have a boat that's at the same level as a car.

 

[Uraijit]

Re: How hard to flip a 4.3 Chevy/OMC long block??

JUST REBUILD IT!

With a stacked bearing, you're probably going to need to either have the crank ground, or just replace it.

The work itself is not hard, just time-consuming. If you follow the manual, (and torque specs), you should be able to do a rebuild with no problems.

If the cylinders and pistons are still in good shape, just throw some new rings on the pistons, replace/repair the crank, replace the bearings, and away you go.

Probably a good idea to replace the valve seals, and lap the valves on the heads, so you've got a nice tight top and bottom end.

Might as well throw in a fresh timing set (chain and sprockets) while you've got her torn down.

All told, you're looking at maybe $200-$250 in parts, and another $10 per crank journal to have the crank ground (assuming it needs it/can be done).

If you end up having to replace the crank, it's probably going to be another $250 or so new, or you can go pull one out of a salvage yard for $40.


As far as pulling the engine, it's REALLY easy, as long as you have some sort of hoist.

I prefer a fork-lift, but not everybody has access to those...

 

[littlebookworm]

Re: How hard to flip a 4.3 Chevy/OMC long block??

You've got the outdrive off and the engine partially disassembled. Pulling the engine and repairing or replacing it isn't that much more. As was said, you'll need a tall engine hoist - A frame or fork lift, a service manual, so you know what you're doing, basic tools and skills, and an alignment tool. I just dropped in a small block GM, 5.0, into my boat today, took an hour with the forklift. Cost about $75-$100 for his time and equipment. Take another 3-4 hours for connections and alignment, barring any complications, and I'm away. If you're considering it, then you've got confidence in your own ability and knowledge. I say go for it and save some money for gas. Good luck. Hy

 

[4Winns2]

Re: How hard to flip a 4.3 Chevy/OMC long block??

My thanks to all for your valuable input.

I do work for a company that has an automotive service division. I talked with a couple of the the mechanics last night. They figured about the same in parts and they want to charge me (an after hours job, of course) $500.00. The shop gets $75.00 an hour for labor. Is this really a 6.6 hour job in your estimation?

BYI: They have a forklift and that's how they plan to pull and re-install the engine.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[MikDee]

Re: How hard to flip a 4.3 Chevy/OMC long block??

Are you talking $500 to lift the engine, or $500 labor for rebuilding the motor? if it's the latter, jump on it you'll never do better! Make sure they build it marine specific, brass freeze plugs, stainless head gaskets, and if it's not a balance shaft, or roller lifter motor, Chevy makes a sweet mild orig. equip. hi-perf cam for that, good for about 25hp, to really wake it up. That cam is the 6cyl. version of the 350/350hp V8 cam.

 

[4Winns2]

Re: How hard to flip a 4.3 Chevy/OMC long block??

Are you talking $500 to lift the engine, or $500 labor for rebuilding the motor? if it's the latter, jump on it you'll never do better! Make sure they build it marine specific, brass freeze plugs, stainless head gaskets, and if it's not a balance shaft, or roller lifter motor, Chevy makes a sweet mild orig. equip. hi-perf cam for that, good for about 25hp, to really wake it up. That cam is the 6cyl. version of the 350/350hp V8 cam.

MikDee:

That's $500.00 to lift out the engine, replace or grind the crankshaft, replace anything else that 's needs it while in there and re-install the engine. The diagnosis is a spun crankshaft after pulling the heads off- -pistons looked great. Obviously, I won't know the extent of the damage until the engine is out. Thanks for the input. I think it is a steal of a labor price too. One of the perks for buying these mechanics a beer now and then. Maybe they like me as well; ahhhhhhhhh, they like my tax free after hours $$$>

 

[MikDee]

Re: How hard to flip a 4.3 Chevy/OMC long block??

$500 to do all that They must love you! Here's a link to the GM camshaft page, I think the L79 version-part #10051165 is the cam you might be able to use:
http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com
and just type in V6 camshafts in the search box on top.

 

[mkast]

Re: How hard to flip a 4.3 Chevy/OMC long block??

Is this really a 6.6 hour job in your estimation?

For someone who has done this before sure, YOU, 6.6 days.

 

[4Winns2]

Re: How hard to flip a 4.3 Chevy/OMC long block??

$500 to do all that They must love you! Here's a link to the GM camshaft page, I think the L79 version-part #10051165 is the cam you might be able to use:
http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com
and just type in V6 camshafts in the search box on top.

MikDee:

Thanks for the link, I'll go over now and have a look.

 

[4Winns2]

Re: How hard to flip a 4.3 Chevy/OMC long block??

For someone who has done this before sure, YOU, 6.6 days.

Too funny, but also too true. I think I'd be looking at better than 6.6 days. Thanks.

 

[MikDee]

Re: How hard to flip a 4.3 Chevy/OMC long block??

MikDee:

Thanks for the link, I'll go over now and have a look.

On their main camshaft page, here are the specs for the L79 V8 cam, it won't let me post the direct link so:

"V8 part # 03863151 L-79 350HP, 327 Hydraulic Flat Tappet
This hydraulic flat tappet is used on the 65-67 Corvette and Chevy II L-79. It has excellent power and torque (ID# 3863152). The duration at lash point in degrees (intake/exhaust) is 320/320; duration at .050? tappet lift (intake/exhaust) is 221/221 and maximum lift with 1.5:1 rocker ratio (intake/exhaust) is 447/447. Valve lash is zero/zero and lobe centerline is 114 degrees."

It is a neat, clean, factory orig. hi-perf part that's "very reasonable", and doesn't require special springs, valve work, head work, or special lifters. I've used this cam in a 262 cu.in. Chevy Monza V8 with a 2bbl, and it went from 4k rpm with the stocker, to 7k rpm afterward! but you hafta remember that was only a 3" stroke motor, the 4.3 V6, 5.0 V8, & 5.7 V8, all have the same approx. 3 1/2" stroke, but 6k is not unheard of in these motors, with this cam. You just have to prop down to match.

 

[4Winns2]

Re: How hard to flip a 4.3 Chevy/OMC long block??

On their main camshaft page, here are the specs for the L79 V8 cam, it won't let me post the direct link so:

"V8 part # 03863151 L-79 350HP, 327 Hydraulic Flat Tappet
This hydraulic flat tappet is used on the 65-67 Corvette and Chevy II L-79. It has excellent power and torque (ID# 3863152). The duration at lash point in degrees (intake/exhaust) is 320/320; duration at .050? tappet lift (intake/exhaust) is 221/221 and maximum lift with 1.5:1 rocker ratio (intake/exhaust) is 447/447. Valve lash is zero/zero and lobe centerline is 114 degrees."

It is a neat, clean, factory orig. hi-perf part that's "very reasonable", and doesn't require special springs, valve work, head work, or special lifters. I've used this cam in a 262 cu.in. Chevy Monza V8 with a 2bbl, and it went from 4k rpm with the stocker, to 7k rpm afterward! but you hafta remember that was only a 3" stroke motor, the 4.3 V6, 5.0 V8, & 5.7 V8, all have the same approx. 3 1/2" stroke, but 6k is not unheard of in these motors, with this cam. You just have to prop down to match.

MikDee:

Significant performance improvement. I'll take a closer look at this cam.

Took a look at all your boats and cars on photobucket. You actually have that many cars and boats? Where do you find the time to maintain them? Very nice wheels and water wheels.

 

[Fishermark]

Re: How hard to flip a 4.3 Chevy/OMC long block??

You need to be very careful when choosing a cam. What works in a car doesn't translate necessarily into a boat. There are different optimum torque curves, etc. Not to mention the fact that the overlap on some cams can actually lead to water ingestion into the engine through the exhaust.

I don't know enough of the specifics to tell you if the cam mentioned above is good or not... I just know enough to know to be careful.

 

[Fishermark]

Re: How hard to flip a 4.3 Chevy/OMC long block??

Since it's been awhile since I did any reading on the subject, I pulled out my copy of Dennis Moore's book "Small Block Chevy Marine Performance," and read up on the cam selection chapter.

Here's the pertinent bit about water ingestion, (page 129):

Racing engines used in race cars and race boats will have a lobe separation angle of between 104 and 108 degrees. A lobe separation angle this tight will create a very rough idle, necessitating high idle speeds. Tight lobe separation angles will also allow water to be sucked back up through the exhaust system into the combustion chamber on most marine exhaust systems.

Standard car and boat engines have lobe separation angles of between 113 degrees and 116 degrees. A lobe separation angle this wide will create a very smooth idle and is less prone to suck water back up into the combustion chambers.

Sounds like the cam described above is within the ball park of acceptable for a boat engine.

 

[hard-3]

Re: How hard to flip a 4.3 Chevy/OMC long block??

check with the local rent-all about a portable gantry type hoist. many have rentals available for $25 a day. pulled a lot of car engines in the garage with an ibeam over 4 rafters and a chain hoist. Can be done if your ceiling is high enough. like stated in previous postings can be done provided you have basic mechanical skills and are able to read and follow service manual . I would probably go with the long block in your case. something else hasd to happen to cause the crank to lock up. ya you can turn a journel on the crank and ring it , but with out knowing what caused it to lock up you could just be throwing good cash away. could be oilpump failed, cracked block in oil gallery, any number of things. Go with the rebuilt longblock and the warrenty. get an alaignment tool to locate the engine correctly in the drive

read and follow the shop manual mark where every thing came from . if ya got a good digital camera take pictures of everything before you start removing parts and if there is any doubt on re-assembly look at the pictures

should take no longer than an 18 pack to be back in water!

 

[MikDee]

Re: How hard to flip a 4.3 Chevy/OMC long block??

MikDee:

Significant performance improvement. I'll take a closer look at this cam.

Took a look at all your boats and cars on photobucket. You actually have that many cars and boats? Where do you find the time to maintain them? Very nice wheels and water wheels.

Thanks, the key words here is HAD, then LOST, all those vehicles over my lifespan so far, wrenched them, then used them for awhile, then sold them usually to pay the bills I'm left with a, 2005' Tucson LX V6 AWD, a 95' Chevy S-10 V6 Auto 2WD, a 98' Dodge Neon twin cam Sport, a 96' Waveventure 1100cc jetski, and an 89' 19' Bayliner Skiboat, with a 125hp Force motor.

 

[SuperNova]

Re: How hard to flip a 4.3 Chevy/OMC long block??

Thanks, the key words here is HAD, then LOST, all those vehicles over my lifespan so far, wrenched them, then used them for awhile, then sold them usually to pay the bills I'm left with a, 2005' Tucson LX V6 AWD, a 95' Chevy S-10 V6 Auto 2WD, a 98' Dodge Neon twin cam Sport, a 96' Waveventure 1100cc jetski, and an 89' 19' Bayliner Skiboat, with a 125hp Force motor.

But those pictures are taken at a car show and they show vehicles of the same make, model and year as ones you had owned at some point; they aren't the actual cars you owned, correct?

 

[MikDee]

Re: How hard to flip a 4.3 Chevy/OMC long block??

But those pictures are taken at a car show and they show vehicles of the same make, model and year as ones you had owned at some point; they aren't the actual cars you owned, correct?

Yes, some of them, they are a reasonable facsimile of what I had, and some are my actual pix, back in early 1960's, the camera technology was not that great, I think a Kodak instamatic was our family camera, and at that age I was more interested in cars, & girls, then cameras so, I didn't take a lot of pix, usually it was whatever mom took Another reason is, my ex-wife has alot of my pix, as well as a bunch of those car pix, that I've been unable to get from her so, I had to put up something to represent mine. I'm not trying to decieve anyone, I originally just put them up to show I had a pretty good varied knowledge of vehicle mechanics, because it's been my hobby for about 48yrs. My not being much of a camera buff, until recently getting a digital camera, I just didn't have pix of all my vehicles, and some I just misplaced, and can't find them