Honda question for hondon

Skinnywater

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The motor is a '02 BF50jet, 110 hrs. <br />Are there any issues or from personal experience.<br /><br />I'm getting a chatter or lash type noise from the primary gear area. This noise comes and goes at idle and comes in at approx. 2200 rpm. then goes away above 25.<br /><br />My diagnosis without disassembly and not ever having seen these parts outside of the manuel is:<br />The primary gear matching, lash, or some preload of the output shaft is the cause?<br /><br />Your thoughts and professional advise please?
 

hondon

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Re: Honda question for hondon

Hi Skinny.What primary gear are we talking about here ?We have a gear exchange between the crank and the driveshaft.That occurs right under the powerhead .Is that where the noise is?You have a bearing assembly in your jet that can also offer up some saucy noises if it is failing.By the way the springers are in on the Rougue.You might talk me into listening for myself.
 

Skinnywater

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Re: Honda question for hondon

Yes, the primary gearset under the powerhead. <br />The best description of the noise is a chatter at idle to a growl at 22-2500 rpm.<br /><br />I'd be surprised if it wasn't these gears that were causing the noise. However, I've also considered that where the splines of the input shaft of the pump slide into the sleeve of the output of the powerhead has excessive play or is dry, or both.<br />Let me add that these noises have been there since it was new. However, it is progressively getting louder.<br /><br />"By the way the springers are in on the Rougue.You might talk me into listening for myself."<br /><br />I'd be very willing to have you perform any repairs. <br />You're comming into you busy season right?<br />I'd sure like to put any major downtime off for a few months if possible.<br /><br />Thanks greatly for your input.
 

hondon

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Re: Honda question for hondon

Bottom line here is what is causing this noise?You are not a mechanical rookie,so do'nt let the fact that this is an outboard get in the way of your abilities.Only you can determine where that noise is coming from unless you let a guy like me have a listen.Then there is the panic factor.Remember the clouds of smoke?Anyway, as techs go I am lucky enough to work in a shop that is never really dead and I am appreciated.Yes this is my busy time of year but that does'nt mean I'm chained to my vise.What did you decide about the jet prop swap?
 

Skinnywater

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Re: Honda question for hondon

>You are not a mechanical rookie,so do'nt let the >fact that this is an outboard get in the way of >your abilities.<br />>Only you can determine where that noise is >coming from unless you let a guy like me have a >listen.<br /><br />No, and it wouldn't. I'd rather waive my warranty and repair it at my expense before going back to my selling dealer. I'd rather leave it to your dealers expertise then waiving my warranty.<br />I'm very near certain that the chatter is from the primary set as it is getting worse. There is collateral damage occuring as there is metal flakes (glitter in sunlight) being suspended in the oil.<br /><br />>What did you decide about the jet prop swap? <br /><br />Completely 100% open. I'd like to explore any and all options. <br />The jet/prop swap on this motor would be ideal.<br />Or possible gains from a stainless steel impeller/liner? Or unload this motor and repower to one that is more acceptable to jet/prop swap.<br /><br />Now, up until the Rougue river curve you threw me. I was under the assumption you were in Lake County. If your not so willing to give up your company name, just lay your county on me and I'll find you through Honda's dealer locator, or bachelor@stormnet.com<br /><br />I was hoping to get past Salmon season but before the metal starts scoring the crank, I'll need to schedule an appointment.
 

Skinnywater

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Re: Honda question for hondon

Called around and couldn't locate you.<br />So, after work I pulled the jetpump unit. The driveshaft splines were bone dry. A healthy dollop of marine grease was performed. I took a visual on the water pump impeller, looked as good as new. Dressed up my jetpump impeller and liner cup and flipped 2 shims to the backside.<br /><br />Just got back from the river, smooth and quiet and picked up 3 lost mph from the jetpump impeller work.<br /><br />I have to think a SS impeller and cup would be a trick upgrade.
 

hondon

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Re: Honda question for hondon

Sorry about the lag,but the rollover thing this time of year on this board really had become astounding,so I missed your post.I am in Humboldt county.A little bit of a drive for you for normal maintenance.I can understand your confusion with The Bluelakes near Clear Lake, but we are near Eureka ,which is where I work .Blue Lake up here is a nice little foothill town with sunshine AND sea air.
 

Skinnywater

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Re: Honda question for hondon

Perfectly understandable hondon.<br />We'll get aquainted later this year. The lubrication I did cetainly helped, but it's proving to be only temporary with the noise slowly coming back.<br /><br />As of this morning the boat has never ran any better. Though I've found that the Honda certainly loves 91 octane.
 

hondon

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Re: Honda question for hondon

Look carefully at the little weep hole on the other side of the jet pump from where you grease it.Is there grease residue?If so you have a seal failure in the jet pump that may have compromised the bearings in that unit.These things have a way with transfering noise from one area to another that can really send you on a wild goose chase.Any impact damage that I need to know about ?Metal flake is interesting tell me more.
 

Skinnywater

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Re: Honda question for hondon

Excellent hondon ! <br />I was going to get more specific when we met in person. <br />Here's what I noticed when I tore it down and what you are telling me.<br /><br />1.As I metioned, the splines on the driveshaft were bone dry and I greased them. This very substantially made a difference.<br />2. There has always since new, been a slight dark greasy stain from that weep hole. I use (white)lubriplate grease after every use. As I pump the grease in, the grease that comes out of the hose is white also but is "runny".<br />3. Zero impact damage. I've always been very careful not to suck rocks or debis into my jetpump. I've dressed it twice now and 2/3 or more of the shims are on the top side now. I think that's excessive.<br />4. The jetpump impeller itself looks new. However, looking at the liner. The liner looks brand new on 2/3 of its circumference.<br />Yet 1/3 of its circumference has been worn by the impeller. As a guess, it's worn into the liner .020?.<br />I think the liner is casted or machined wrong or there is a problem with the pump bearing/alignment as you describe.<br />5. This was an area of concern when I took it in last year, the first and last time, to my selling dealer. No mention was made about this wear, or my noise. I was just told my carbs needed to be synced. (I bought guages and use them every 20 hours or so. The dealer was totally wrong about that.)<br />6. The metal flakes were seen only after my 20 hr. oil change. I switched to 5-30 Redline at that time, doubled up on my fiter change the next 40 hours, and haven't seen it since. I'm not concered with this at all at this time. I believe it was a break in condition.<br />Before i greased the driveshaft splines I believed that there might have been a relation. <br /><br />hondon, since Salmon season just opened up and my grease has temporarily put a bandaid on the situation, I believe I can put this off for a while.<br />Early fall, if not sooner, I'll make an appointment with you to work it over. I suspect (but won't assume) that this might be covered under warranty. <br />However, I'm very interested in a Stainless steel impeller/liner. Do you have an opinion on them?, a source?, a price?<br /><br />BTW, I bought the boat new a year ago last April.<br />There is 141.2 hours on the funometer so far. I'll put a couple more hours on her this evening. :) <br /><br />As always, thanks for your time and contributions to the board.
 

hondon

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Re: Honda question for hondon

The dry splines on your driveshaft creates another black eye for your selling dealer.These engines are shipped ,JET READY ,to the dealer,without the jet unit.That jet is drop shipped from San Leandro and installed by the dealer.I dare you to find any tech on this board that would install a gearcase without putting some spline grease on that driveshaft. The discoloration on that weep hole is normal.It is a weep hole and also a pressure vent so that when all that grease you pump into that bearing carrier gets hot and expands the air between those double lipped seals has a safe place to burp out.You will get concerned if you see piles of grease in that area.You have put some hours on this thing and no matter how careful you are with a jet ,wear occurs.2 shims in 140 hours ? Not bad for this neck of the woods.I ca'nt think of anyone local using ss impeller on this HP so i ca'nt even comment on availability.I'll check it out .
 

hondon

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Re: Honda question for hondon

Still checking on that availability A call into Wooldridge but no one I've spoken to has done SS in this jet.In general I discourage SS because of the risk of serious powerhead damage with impact.It do'es however offer some substansial performance perks.You sound carefull enough to benefit but it is looking like the equipment is not out there .
 
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Re: Honda question for hondon

Hi Hondon<br />A fresh enquiry for you. Do you know how old my B75 (7.5 HP twin) is ? Serial no. 8000 020 ?<br />Thanks.
 

hondon

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Re: Honda question for hondon

Honda, as do most manufacturers , label their products for the market they are selling them in .Those numbers given are no help to me.As a little international experiment,look at the front of your engine case ,just to the left of the carb as you look at it , and just above where all the shifting and throttling happens.Over here, there is a number stamped in that case, and I doubt things are any different there.That # may or may not help you.
 

Johnv

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Re: Honda question for hondon

Another question for Hondon<br /><br />I posted this a while back and had a reply suggesting that valve and timing adjustments were the first things to pursue. Do you agree, or any other suggestions would be appreciated.<br /><br />I have a 1999 Honda 4 stroke 50 which starts, idles and operates fine up to 4500 RPM. Once it exceeds this RPM it starts to develop a rattle sound which gets progressively louder as RPM increases. It does not make this sound while the engine is still cold but once it gets warm the rattle occurs at this speed. Could this be timing, fuel octane ???<br /><br />Any ideas or suggestions as to cause would be welcome; thanks.
 

hondon

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Re: Honda question for hondon

We are getting way off the topic and well away from protocol.If you have a question, post it .If I have an answer ,I will post that as well.That's how things work here.
 

Skinnywater

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Re: Honda question for hondon

Thanks hondon for your efforts. You will be hearing from me soon.
 

45_red

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Re: Honda question for hondon

for Johnv RE:engine rattle:<br />I ain't Hondon;But as a rule the first thing to check would be the oil, due for a change? getting gas in the oil?
 
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