Honda 90 w/carbs or other 4-stroke w/EFI

[DBLD]

Hello,<br /><br />I'm looking at different 90hp-115hp motors to repower my 19ft center console. Everyone raves about the Hondas, so I am looking at the 90hp. Everything looks great except I see that it has carbs whereas most other 4-stroke motors seem to have EFI.<br /><br />Could anyone tell me the advantages or disadvantages of carbs vs. EFI? Should I lean towards the other brands that have EFI? I guess my only other option (if I want to stick with a Honda) would be to go up to the larger Honda that does have EFI, but I'm not sure I need that much power.<br /><br />Thanks for your help.

 

[marv plotzka]

Re: Honda 90 w/carbs or other 4-stroke w/EFI

I own several pieces of Honda power equipment, but when it came to a new outboard, I took the advice of several people on this bulletin board and bought a Johnson 4 stroke.<br />It has EFI and was about a hundred pounds lighter than the Honda. You touch the key and it’s running. It’s smooth and its quiet. It’s one of the few things I have ever bought that far exceeded my expectations. I can’t say enough good things about the Johnson. I think before you decide on a motor, you should take one out on the water. The Johnson was my first 4 stroke outboard, and for my personal use, I will never go back to a two stroke.<br /> That’s my two cents. <br />Good Luck

 

[MajBach]

Re: Honda 90 w/carbs or other 4-stroke w/EFI

I love my Honda 90Hp. But realistically, I'd say becasue it is a four-stroke, not because it is a honda. Their warranty service (when i *thought* I needed it) was unsurpassable. but if and when I replace this motor, it will be with a EFI equipped motor.

 

[radsrh]

Re: Honda 90 w/carbs or other 4-stroke w/EFI

Why not go with the 115 Honda, you get the Honda name and EFI for the same weight of the 90 Honda, it's all good

 

[hondon]

Re: Honda 90 w/carbs or other 4-stroke w/EFI

You are not sharing with us where you are from and how you intend to use this engine.EFI upside is that they will operate in all environments with no tweaking,turn key starting,and they just run sweet.Downside is with most manufactures your dealer will need special software to troubleshoot any problems you might have with this unit,and they can come up.

 

[MajBach]

Re: Honda 90 w/carbs or other 4-stroke w/EFI

Why not go with the 115 Honda, you get the Honda name and EFI for the same weight of the 90 Honda, it's all good

Quite untrue! Think the 115/130 is just short of being 200 lbs heavier! Personally, I wouldn't touch this motor with a 10 foot pole. If there is a rumor that 4-strokes are heavier than their 2-stroke cousins, the honda 115/130 founded it.<br />The 75 is the same weight of the 90.<br /><br />Check out the Yamaha 115 hp.

 

[DBLD]

Re: Honda 90 w/carbs or other 4-stroke w/EFI

Hi,<br /><br />Thanks for all the replies. To respond to one post, I boat out of Southeastern Massachusetts and I try to go as long as the season allows. I boat in cold fall weather, cool early spring, and very hot summer days.<br /><br />Also, I would like the 115 Honda as it does have EFI, but it is listed at 496lbs, while the 90 is only 373lbs.<br /><br />But I guess I still don't know what the advantages are, if any, of having EFI over carbs? If it is a big deal, I will either go up the 115 or perhaps the Suzuki 115 as it weighs in at 416lbs. But if it isn't a big deal, the light 90hp Honda looks good to me. But I don't want to buy this engine if carbs are on their way out.<br /><br />Thanks again for all the replies!

 

[radsrh]

Re: Honda 90 w/carbs or other 4-stroke w/EFI

Sorry for the wrong info, when I purchased my Honda 90 last year I looked at both the 115 and the 90 and the weight listed on the web site listed both at 373 Lbs. The 115 would have been a over power for my boat so I got the 90 and have not regretted a day yet, I live in northern wisconsin and run from ice out till late fall and have had no problems running the carbs yet. good luck let us know what you go with.

 

[manitoba1]

Re: Honda 90 w/carbs or other 4-stroke w/EFI

I have a 70hp EFI Suzuki 4 stroke (Suzuki makes the new Johnson 4 strokes) and I can say the EFI does make a difference in accelleration, starting and performance. My friend just bought a 17 ft Lund angler SS and a 90hp honda and I was able to take it for a ride. Nice quiet running engine but the throttle response is not as quick and performance is not as strong as my Suzuki on a smaller 16ft similar style alumacraft boat. To be fair thought the Honda is running a 19 pitch prop and could use a 17 pitch like my engine. The honda has a bit of lag when you punch the throttle. <br /><br />With an EFI engine there is no choke or warm up lever to worry about. Just turn the key and idle abit before taking off. If you have a nearby dealer check out the Suzuki/Johnson EFI 90 or 115 and see if you can water test a boat with this engine. I know you will be impressed. A few of my friends who have driven my boat have said they would buy a Suzuki 4 stroke before a Honda.

 

[MajBach]

Re: Honda 90 w/carbs or other 4-stroke w/EFI

My apologies too. My number have the 90 @ 352# and the 115 @ 513# - obviously incorrent.<br /><br />I would agree with manitboa on the throttle response issue, although I do not have direct experience. I have also noticed with my 90 that if I have a 19" prop on for long cruising and punch the throttle from idle, she'll often die out from gulping to much air. Mechanic has ajusted this before (don't know what it is- probably acceleration pump)with adequate results. <br /><br />Statistically speaking only, I think the Suzuki 140 is almost to good to be true. If my boat could have handled that size I would have seriously considered it. <br /><br />Although over the years I have frequently heard observations that two identical motors, one EFI and the other carbed, (it alwyas seemed to be a pair of Johnsons compared), the carb'ed one edges out the EFI in the top end consistantly. Don't know why this would be true though. Besides, I rarely open mine up anyway. However, if the Honda 90 comes out with EFI, I will promptly trade mine in for one.<br />In my opinion, in the 100 hp and above departmaent, Honda is not the best choice - but that's going by numbers only.

 

[Hawaiian]

Re: Honda 90 w/carbs or other 4-stroke w/EFI

Don’t get me wrong, FI is great and more efficient but I'm tired of people saying not to waste their time buying a carbed engine. I have a 2002 Honda 90 on my Boston Whaler. Cold starts are a simple; pump bulb...activate choke...turn the ignition key...crank…and the engine starts! High idle for 5-15 seconds depending on temp and I'm cruising away from the ramp. Hot starts are a simple twist of the key and 1-2 seconds of crank time immediately to a smooth idle. Honestly, my carburated 4 stroke has started, idled, ran and performed identical to a similar 4 stroke fuel injected motor EXCEPT with the following differences. <br /><br />1. I have to lift a choke lever and hold at the desired high RPM for cold starts. <br /><br />2. I've had to get my carbs synchronized at the 20 hr. break-in service.<br /><br />3. A carburator adjustment CHECK is called for every 100 hours with or without possible adjustment. <br /><br />I guy I boat with has the same boat as mine but has a 90 Suzuki EFI 4 stroke. I have a Honda 90. Hole, top speed and fuel economy are almost identical. If I had a choice, I would probably go with EFI but a carbed motor is not the end of the world. As for the weight issue, Mercury and Suzuki 90 4 strokes are heavier and Yamaha 90 4 stroke is about the same. Plus the new DFI 2 strokes are also about the same weight as a comparable 4 stroke.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: Honda 90 w/carbs or other 4-stroke w/EFI

What's more important then brand,size,wieght,EFI or Carbs, is dealership performance and reputation. Go with that suggestion.<br /><br />My Honda carbs haven't given me any problem and I don't expect them to. It's still one of the fastest starting at the ramp.

 

[MajBach]

Re: Honda 90 w/carbs or other 4-stroke w/EFI

Skinny:<br />yesterday it took me about 45 seconds and 4 attempts to get my 90 going. I 'd like to know what steps you take to get your running so quickly.

 

[radsrh]

Re: Honda 90 w/carbs or other 4-stroke w/EFI

MajBach, just for future reference if you have a seperate question you should start a new thread. As for starting my 90, I pump the bulb up firm, turn the key to on, pull the fast idle choke to full up ( you should hear a click as the choke solenoid closes the choke plates) turn the key to start, she fires right up lower the fast idle to open the choke and let it warm up in fast idle until it will stay running at a slow idle. If the solenoids are sticky they will free up if you cycle the fast idle full on and off a few times with the key on.

 

[MajBach]

Re: Honda 90 w/carbs or other 4-stroke w/EFI

Well, in the future I will do that - didn't even cross my mind at the time. To elaborate on your response....Mmy Honda has an OMC flush mount control box [long story]. the choke is activated by pushing in the ignition key {terrible design} and I don't have a fast idle. I'm wondering, is the fast idle just a fine tune of the throttle or does it operate something different? If the latter, it may explain why I have so much problem starting.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: Honda 90 w/carbs or other 4-stroke w/EFI

Majbach, I've read your past posts about your "not so Honda" remote controls. Fourty five seconds and four attempts wouldn't be acceptable to me no matter who made the carb.<br /><br />No matter the weather or condition, here's my proceedure.<br />I pump the bulb when I'm unstrapping my boat.<br />When I'm ready to get under way, I lift the choke/fast idle lever and turn the key.<br />The starter cranks, one thousand one, one thousand two, one thou......fires off!.... I immediately release the lever off choke position and hold to fast idle for 5-10 seconds.......release to idle speed....engage reverse or foward......2500 RPM for a minute or so......then I'm off...WOT....plane..... backoff to 5500RPM.<br /><br />The coldest of the cold mornings 35f after the motor sat all week requiered a 20 second fast idle. The motor never fails to fire up under 3 seconds, never. It bogged down once under WOT acceloration the first time I had it out, never since. <br />Two or three times it stalled right after a cold start as I came off of a fast idle. <br /><br />A half a dozen or so times it's idled slightly rough after a hot start for 15-20 seconds.<br />It hasn't done any of these very minor momentary glitches since I started running premium (91 octane)fuel.<br /><br />The motor is used at idle speed for 40% of the time and 5500RPM 50% of the time and has 160 hours on it since new 15-16 months ago.<br />In addition, I never smell exaust. Never had fuel in the oil. I run synthetic (Redline 5w30)and it stays real clean between changes. Even being a jetdrive it sips fuel.<br /><br />So far I'm the only one to work on it. <br />I've adjusted the valves and timing belt 3 times. The last time no adjustment was needed. Synced the carbs once, adjusted the idle twice.<br /><br />Soon It'll go into the shop for some work on the jetpump driveshaft bearing. I've already taken it apart to diagnose the problem. I inspected the water pump at the same time.<br /><br />I guess I'm one of the few here that have a carbureted motor that thinks it's fuel injected.<br /><br />It's nice to own a boat and motor that gets constant compliments. Not a day on the river goes by that I don't get a "nice boat" comment. <br />So it really doesn't matter to me what other people buy. I did my homework, have a lot of fun and catch a lot of big fish. <br /><br />I buy quality carbed or not.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: Honda 90 w/carbs or other 4-stroke w/EFI

Majbach, you need that fast idle feature to open the throttles while on choke. Then you need the fast idle feature to allow the engine to breathe to clear a fat mixture. Then you need the fast idle to transition to normal mixture, operating temp and cylinder lubrication.<br /><br />Keep in mind the fast idle lever, depending on position goes from idle RPM to 2,000 RPM and anything in between.<br /><br />I'd be afraid of washing your cylinder walls down, irritating your situation further. I really didn't have any idea you didn't have a fast idle feature with that OMC remote. Your doing a lot of unneccesary wear and tear without it. I.E., battery, cables, ring gear, starter, cylinder/rings. <br />Not to mention making us Honda guys look bad at the ramp!<br /><br />Keep in mind, anything my 3 cylinder does, your 4 should do smoother. And I'd fully expect it to.<br /><br />As an idea to cover the hole that removing that OMC remote will make. Youre local building supply sells some aluminum stock that can be cut/trimed with some snips. Aluminum pop rivets and an hour or so.

 

[MajBach]

Re: Honda 90 w/carbs or other 4-stroke w/EFI

Thanks Skinny! There's more to this than I thought. If I remove the OMC unit, it will be replaced with a HOnda one. Have to do some more research as to get the flush mount Honda or standard box.

 

[radsrh]

Re: Honda 90 w/carbs or other 4-stroke w/EFI

I am not famillar with the OMC unit, I know that my old force unit you could pull the handle out and advance it forward to engage a fast idle with out putting it in gear. I also have seen them have a knob to pull out and advance the handle forward to put them in a fast idle mode, do they make controlls that are not able to advance the throttle into a fast idle for warm up?