Holiday or SS?

[djmeaney]

My search for a Starcraft continues. I have a few that I'm considering. The first question is a Holiday or a SS? I'm looking for a boat that can hold at least 5 (more is better) for tubing, skiing and may be a little fishing. Unfortunately, money is a consideration, which is why I'm looking at aluminum boats and planning on doing some restoration work.

This Holiday is about 4 hours away. Here's the CL description:

This is an 18 foot 1968 Starcraft Holiday V aluminum runabout with a small cuddy in the bow. This boat is all original and is pretty cool to see.
It is powered by a Mercruiser 120 hp 4 cylinder. It runs very smooth and strong. We have put a lot of work into the boat over the past three years. New floor, alternator, starter, solenoids, bilge pump, and battery. It has a new custom made mooring cover this year. We also completely rewired the boat due to many splices from previous owners. The hull is solid and does not leak. The boat comes with a trailer as well.

The boat needs nothing and includes original repair and maintenance manuals.

I spoke with the seller and he says the interior has some wear and tear(s) but that the transom and deck are solid. He did say that reverse is a little tricky -- makes some grinding noises, but he thinks it will last a while longer. He says the boat comfortably does 20 to 25 mph, but could probably do 30. The trailer is rusty but roadworthy. Asking price is $1,300 -- recently reduced from $1,500.

I stopped by to see this 18 ft SS. Hull looks good. Floor has been ripped out and seller had already bought 3 sheets of 3/4" plywood, outdoor carpet and used seats in good condition before he lost interest in the project. Comes with a 1972 Evinrude 125 HP (hydro electric shift) OB. The seller bought the motor separately and has never seen it run. Asking price $900.

Here's another 18 ft SS available with an asking price of $1,100.
Sellers description: 1974 Starcraft deep v hull with anchor,ski tube,water skis and bumpers 70hp evenrude out board with trailer nice fishing boat needs a little tlc.

There's another 18ft SS with a 75 hp Johnson Stinger OB within driving range. Seller says floor and transom need replacing. Asking price is $450.

Photos of this one posted to Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/66077657@N06/

These boats are all in New England -- so you Midwesterners will need to factor in a northeast surcharge.

I have no experience with Starcrafts, or power boats for that matter. Is there much of a difference on how many people you can comfortably carry in an 18 ft SS vs. a Holiday? I/O vs OB? Is an SS with 70 or 75 HP under powered for tubing or skiing? Is an outdrive that grinds going into reverse a big deal -- I'm thinking it is? (But is it better than hydro electric shift outboard?)

I welcome any comments or suggestions from experienced Starcrafters.

Dan

 

[CheapboatKev]

Re: Holiday or SS?

Welcome to the insanity..
This hurts me...however
For the amount of people + what you want to do with a boat..
The 18 ft SS is the way to go.
4 people in my Holiday (I/O) is cramped unless all we do is run around. Go fishing? forget about it, need to ditch 1 body as 3 is about max to have any space.

An outdrive that "grinds" while shifting could just be a bad shift cable, or one that needs to be adjusted properly.
If it has been this way for a long time, there maybe some shaving going on in the top gears, which falls to the loer unit and causes woes down there too...

a 75hp OB may do the job..I dont have enough experience but others will come along and let you know..


final thought...If you have "no experience with powerboats", find a co-worker, buddy, church member...anybody that knows a bit about boat boats with you if you go look at any of these prospects, and take a USCG Aux boat course before you put one on the water.

 

[barato2]

Re: Holiday or SS?

dj--

Kev is 100% on. forget that Holiday.....I/O woes get very expensive very fast; OBs are better for first time boat owner. and he's right on the space eaten by the closed bow....only reason i'd get a holiday over an SS was if fishing in big water were the mission and i wanted something that could take an occasional wave across the bow.

doubt you'll be happy trying to ski with 5 aboard with 70-75hp. and you can use the seller's igorance of that 125 (or any motor) to your bft. (IMHO you're right to be leery of lectroshift, parts are getting very hard to find and very few techs who can/will work on one so you're 100% DIYin)

you need a crash course in quick diagnostics on outboards. go to Harbor Fright and invest $25 in a "compression gauge set". this measures the pressure the pistons/rings are able to generate (ie, the motor's efficiency at pumping air), which basically tells you a lot abt internal condition with nothing more than pulling spark plugs and cranking it over a few times (i'm oversimplifying; there should be instructions in the kit). OBs use roller bearings on the crankshaft and connecting rods, so piston rings and cylinder almost always wear faster (iow, if compression is good, bottom end of power head is probably OK). you're looking for #s over 100 and no more than 10-15% variation between cylinders. also check to see if every cylinder has spark, and that the "pee hole" on lower unit has good stream when it's run in trash can (if it runs; i think 40% of the old OBs out there don't run, mostly due to simple issue of crudded up carbs, another bit of into you can use to your advantage if compression and other tests are good.)(i just bought a near-showroom motorcycle for 2500 due to exactly this issue; it took <1hr to get it going)

me, i'd go for the $450 boat. try to nego him down more. if transom is sound, drop in 1 sheet of cheap 3/8 ply on top of existing floor and add lawn chairs, change the impeller and clean carbs as needed, then go for a few runs before end of season to see what issues you have and to fire the enthusiasm. that motor looks VERY clean.

any of these boats fresh-water-only? that would be a signif plus to me even though i'll be using my boats in salt eventually.

good luck, ask any Qs, thanks for posting pix, and congrats on doing your homework. hope some of this helps.

 

[Bwana Don]

Re: Holiday or SS?

My suggestion is to go open bow for fishing. The holiday is a sharper model to look at, but lacks the bow space to fish from. Cruising and pimping Holiday, pirate forays to your favorite fishing hole with your crew go SuperSport.

If you're not afraid of mechanical work go I/O. I'd go outboard for ease of working on it. And yes the 75 is underpowered, a rule of thumb is no LESS than 75% of max horsepower. In your case thats .75 * 140, or about a 100 hp. I'm just guessing the max hp for the boat and rounding on the math cause I'm too lazy to get a calculator.

I used excel, didn't have to get up, it's 105 HP minimum. You might want to keep looking or plan on the SS and look for an outboard. Force or Chrysler motors are good and cheap, Johnny Rudes are parts plentiful and easy to work on.

These are my opinions, do what you think works for you. Sometimes waiting is best, sometimes a great deal comes along and ya need to snap it up. Good luck in the hunt.

 

[barato2]

Re: Holiday or SS?

Cruising and pimping Holiday
you got it Bro Don...i'll be adding the stick-on fake Buick portholes, the sheepskin seat covers, the fuzzy dice, and the neon any day now :facepalm:

Force and Chry are cheap to BUY.....parts are another matter, and not as easy to find as OMCs.

 

[CheapboatKev]

Re: Holiday or SS?

I'm looking for some 22 inch rims for my trailer

 

[inthedirtagain]

Re: Holiday or SS?

I just spent the last month having fun with my 66 Holiday and our family of 5. The boat is new to us, so we're still experimenting with what works and what doesn't. Mine is the closed-bow with no walk-through window. I've also got the original 100hp O/B on it (its getting tired), so there is more interior space to move around in. This combinaion tops out at around 31-32mph with that load, too.

We place the waterskis under the back-to-back seats, the coolers go under the bow, and I have a large trunk that sits on the floor near the fuel tanks at the stern. This trunk holds all our life jackets, tow ropes, towels, and also serves as an extra seat or two. I plan on mounting two swivel seats to the lid of this trunk so that the kids friends (aka.....tagalongs) have a place to sit, as well. The knee boards and folding ladder ride between the trunk and the stern, yet are still moveable when I need to fuel up. If we keep this boat, I will be looking at a repower in the spring. I'd like to put a modern O/B on it that can pull me out of the water faster (I'm 6'3 and 240lbs). If you are seriously considering a Holiday or SS for pulling water toys, you're gonna need more motor than an old 70hp.

 

[djmeaney]

Re: Holiday or SS?

Thanks for the great feedback. Looks like the Holiday is out -- too bad that's the boat that needed the least work. On the other hand, I like to do the restoration work so I get to learn more about the boat and how it all goes together.

So the real decision is which SS.

The 125 HP Hydro electric shift on the $900 that the seller has not seen run, but was told it did.

The 75 HP that hasn't run in a few years, but does turn over according to the seller.

The 70 HP that is even more under powered.

I posted something in the Evinrude/Johnson forum for thoughts on taking a chance on the 125 and parting out if necessary vs. buying the 75 and selling for $$$ to buy a bigger OB.

Also, I do have boating experience -- 19 ft O'Day Mariner sailboat with a 1969 Johnson -- twin cylinder 6 HP longshaft (which I have almost completely) rebuilt. So I guess in a way I have been a power boater -- when the wind dies. Also have been through safe boating class, but would want a refresher before going out as one of those crazy motor boaters!

Dan

 

[Pugetsound]

Re: Holiday or SS?

Are you serious 22 inch rims fo the trailer.

I'm looking for some 22 inch rims for my trailer

 

[CheapboatKev]

Re: Holiday or SS?

Are you serious 22 inch rims fo the trailer.

With spinners....

Ah no.
;0)

 

[inthedirtagain]

Re: Holiday or SS?

In my opinion, unless the sellers can start the motor on muffs or run you around a lake, all of the options should be considered parts motors. So if you end up purchasing any of these boats, consider the possibility of all the motors will need some type of repair, or a total rebuild. I got lucky and my boat was water-ready the day I brought it home. That being said, having the ability to check for spark at each cylinder, as well as compression, will give you the best info and direction to take. Personally, I'd go for the 125 myself and hope for the best. If you can make it run, great. If not, part it out and put that money toward something that you'll be happy with. I've never heard of anyone wishing they had chosen a smaller motor. Its usually quite the opposite, especially when maxing out the carrying capacity of the boat. Performance will progressively suffer as you add more passengers.

Wouldn't hurt to have some pre-mix in a squirt bottle when looking at boats, too. Squirt some into the carbs and see if it will attept to start. If its showing signs of life, you may have a viable option. Depending upon the size of the people in your group and the style of seating, a Holiday shouln't be excluded. My back-to-back seats fold out into benches, and there is room to add camp chairs or build small jump seats. I've had 7 in my boat, so I know it is possible (2-240/330lbs adults, 2-120lbs teens, and 3 youngsters <80lbs ea). When we go out with other families, it is expected that some will remain on shore while others are playing. We just make sure that we switch often so no one feels left out.

 

[Bwana Don]

Re: Holiday or SS?

The grinding in revers could be due to a cut off switch bad or out of adjustment. The motor will shut off for a split second while shifting from F to R. Have a marine mechanic meet you at the boat and get his .02. The Holiday sounds like the best boat.

It's a tough choice, you'd probably be happy with either. Good luck.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Holiday or SS?

A 3 cylinder 70 or 75 will be a fine motor for a 18' SS. I'd probably take one of those over that 125 electric shift motor.