Hole in Piston ? 1990 Merc V6 4.3LX 262CID

ba5e

Seaman
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Sep 13, 2010
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62
'She?s been running rough on one engine' Is an understatement.

So, what happened, this boat (Sea Ray 260ov 1990) was purchased last year with known compression issues in the starboard engine, a test was carried out and all cylinders give 140 but number 6, which a gave a reading of 125psi after some oil.

The decision was taking to only inspect without opening up the motor, and at this time she ran sweetly on land. The engines were serviced and we splashed her.....all good, slow speed maneuvering absolutely fine, temps good, oil pressure good & engines sounding sweet. Suddenly we noticed a raw water cooling hose had burst....humm probably just old and brittle? We taped it up and continued. After powering up onto the plane, 10 minutes into our run the temp sender went crazy (I think it then dropped to 0). We immediately killed the starboard engine in gear at about 15 knots, and then took her out of gear.....then she started dieseling for about 20-30 seconds until we started her again to stop it. Opening the engine bay we discovered the starboard bank on the starboard engine had overheated, bubbling the exhaust tubing (we were running with a combination of corsas captains? choice on/off during the run). The manifold and header on that side were dangerously hot to touch so we limped back on one engine. Starting it back at the dock we heard a distinct 'huffing' noise coming from the motor.....it would tick over fine but there was something wrong.

After pulling the elbows and manifolds we found the elbows were junk (heavy corrosion from salt water) the manifolds were in good condition so I ran an acetone test and they did not leak. Both sides of the v6 looked similar.

This lead me to believe that we had an overheat due to a bad elbow, and when we killed the engine at speed with the corsa system active the wash from the aft of the boat forced some water back down the manifold and allowed the engine to diesel due to piston 6 &/or 4 having water intrusion. How wrong could I have been!

After replacing everything I am still getting the same symptoms, and that huffing noise was definitely not correct..... Water was found in 4&6, fresh water in 4 and caf? latte in 6, plug in 6 was destroyed beyond recognition with a cream coloured deposit over. Draining the oil showed a lovely caf? latte colour too. I flushed the cylinders out and ran two loads of diesel through the oil to clean out the mess. Strip down next. Intake manifold looks ok but has water mixed with oil under the carb, valve gear ok, but when the head came off I found cylinder 6 had a hole straight through the middle where the spark plug sparks. There is a rough surface all over the top of the head and valves, the same on the piston; see the pictures attached. It seems there has been a gasket breach between 4&6, but I can't work out where the water came from.

So, my first question, how do I determine the chain of events to work out what triggered this mess so I can address that?

One idea I have come up with is that cylinder 6 was running lean and/or timing was out causing detonation (thus the hole in the piston). But I don't know if this explains the low compression before the hole appeared (which I am sure was during the high speed run).


photo 5.jpgphoto 3.jpgphoto 2 (3).jpgphoto 5 (2).jpgphoto 1.jpg
 

ba5e

Seaman
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Messages
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Re: Hole in Piston ? 1990 Merc V6 4.3LX 262CID

Here are some high res pictures (and extra shots as iboats has a limit of 5)
 

zbnutcase

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Re: Hole in Piston ? 1990 Merc V6 4.3LX 262CID

The water in the cylinders most likely came in from the dieseling, as engines will turn in opposite direction quite often, drawing water in from the exhaust, and would explain how it got pumped all the way up to the carb base.
 

joewithaboat

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Re: Hole in Piston ? 1990 Merc V6 4.3LX 262CID

Looks like your water jackets are in pretty poor shape. Those Felpro intake gaskets are not oem so some one has been into it previously.

The other cylinders appear to have been healthy and burning clean. The fire rings in the head gaskets do show some signs of weeping into or from the water jackets. Could have just been an overheat issue that lead to pre ignition in that one hole. That's why it dieseled/kept firing that time you tried to shut it off. That hole was glowing hot and kept igniting.

Does the other engine have felpro intake gaskets visible?
 

ba5e

Seaman
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Messages
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Re: Hole in Piston ? 1990 Merc V6 4.3LX 262CID

Looks like your water jackets are in pretty poor shape. Those Felpro intake gaskets are not oem so some one has been into it previously.

The other cylinders appear to have been healthy and burning clean. The fire rings in the head gaskets do show some signs of weeping into or from the water jackets. Could have just been an overheat issue that lead to pre ignition in that one hole. That's why it dieseled/kept firing that time you tried to shut it off. That hole was glowing hot and kept igniting.

Does the other engine have felpro intake gaskets visible?

The other engine is fully assembled so it's tough to say, I will take a look tomorrow evening and take some pictures. I agree that the intake manifold has been off before, the selant job on the head bolts and valley are not factory. Does it look like the heads have been off too?
 

joewithaboat

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Re: Hole in Piston ? 1990 Merc V6 4.3LX 262CID

The other engine is fully assembled so it's tough to say, I will take a look tomorrow evening and take some pictures. I agree that the intake manifold has been off before, the selant job on the head bolts and valley are not factory. Does it look like the heads have been off too?

You should be able to see the top of the intake gasket, just like your picture with just the carb off. You can see the top of the blue gasket sticking up. As to the head gaskets im not sure. I have not torn an oem down of that vintage. I bet there is a part number on them somewhere, take a look and google the #.

Some of these guys that do it for a living will be able to tell you as well.

What did the manifolds and risers look like?

Keep us posted!
 

ba5e

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Messages
62
Re: Hole in Piston ? 1990 Merc V6 4.3LX 262CID

OK, got the other head off and taking them both in for milling in the morning.

Engine #2 seems to have the same blue gaskets (see pics), so it looks to my eyes like the inlet manifold has been off on that one too.

Whilst taking off the second (port) head, cylinders 1,3 & 5 I noticed all the bolts were very clean; much better condition than the starboard side of Engine #1 (that has the problem). No rust at all on the bolts.

The manifolds were in very good condition, and have had the acetone test done with no visible leaks or acetone level drops observed. The risiers were trash (totally rusted at the outlet and they were replaced but the symptoms continued after this. I used HGE risers and mercruiser OEM gaskets.

High quality Pics here:

http://imgur.com/a/RyC5S
 

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ba5e

Seaman
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Re: Hole in Piston ? 1990 Merc V6 4.3LX 262CID

Here is a pic of one riser
 
Last edited:

ba5e

Seaman
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Re: Hole in Piston ? 1990 Merc V6 4.3LX 262CID

So I got the block out of the boat, and will rebuild the bad piston.

I still need to know what could have caused this chain of events so I know what else to think about when putting it back together. Based on the evidence what could it be?
 

ba5e

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Re: Hole in Piston ? 1990 Merc V6 4.3LX 262CID

Ok, I found a lovely crack in the head:


9cMB7.jpg
 

joewithaboat

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Re: Hole in Piston ? 1990 Merc V6 4.3LX 262CID

That head has been recently surfaced. Looks like someone may have pawned a problem off on you. Pretty common with used boats.
It looks like the head was cut after the crack as well.
 

joewithaboat

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Re: Hole in Piston ? 1990 Merc V6 4.3LX 262CID

Here is a pic of one riser
NREAK.jpg


That is one sad looking riser and the previous owner should be slapped for reusing and selling that mess!

Looks like they made an attempt to spray paint the blue gaskets with black to cover up the fact that it had been opened up.

Did the p/o disclose any problems or mechanical history. Hope you got a smokin deal.

Good luck!
 

ba5e

Seaman
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
62
Re: Hole in Piston ? 1990 Merc V6 4.3LX 262CID

That head has been recently surfaced. Looks like someone may have pawned a problem off on you. Pretty common with used boats.
It looks like the head was cut after the crack as well.

Yeah, I took the head in for cutting, and then saw this when I got it back. I think the crack formed due to the high heat, caused by pre-ignition and then detonation. The piston was cooked. Smelling it it smelt burnt and that cylinder (#6) has dealt with some serious heat. Just hope the block survived without getting warped at all around #6. The block face is flat in any case requiring an hour or so of careful sanding and cleaning.
 

ba5e

Seaman
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
62
Re: Hole in Piston ? 1990 Merc V6 4.3LX 262CID

That is one sad looking riser and the previous owner should be slapped for reusing and selling that mess!

Looks like they made an attempt to spray paint the blue gaskets with black to cover up the fact that it had been opened up.

Did the p/o disclose any problems or mechanical history. Hope you got a smokin deal.

Good luck!


Yes, I knew of a compression problem in that engine. The boat was practically a steal so I am able to throw some money at it without becoming out of pocket, so to speak :)

Not sure what they would have hoped to achieve by opening the intake manifolds, but then the marina that sold it to me did not give me any details of the boats life. Both engines, however, have only done 250 or so hours; it has been used as a summer holiday boat most of its life and stored in a marina for the last 3 years, hence the corrosion and rust, hence the great price.
 

joewithaboat

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Re: Hole in Piston ? 1990 Merc V6 4.3LX 262CID

Yeah, I took the head in for cutting, and then saw this when I got it back. I think the crack formed due to the high heat, caused by pre-ignition and then detonation. The piston was cooked. Smelling it it smelt burnt and that cylinder (#6) has dealt with some serious heat. Just hope the block survived without getting warped at all around #6. The block face is flat in any case requiring an hour or so of careful sanding and cleaning.

You should not go back to that machine shop again. A magnetic particle inspection would have found that crack and taken all of about 10 seconds. It should have not even been resurfaced. You cant reuse that just in case you were wondering.

Be very careful "sanding" on the deck surface it is easy to get it untrue where the gasket wont seal.
 
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