hmm...fat guys?

paulhofius

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Jun 7, 2005
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13
I have a 1980 citation v-hull with a 120 mercruiser I/O (alpha one drive). I was pulling my friend who is a fairly experienced slalom skier and i had some trouble pulling him up. he weighs about 140lbs and it took somewhere around 8 seconds for him to get up at WOT. I was wondering if my boat was just not big enough to pull slalom skiers or if there was something that could maybe be modified to improve puling power. i dont think i could pull a full grown man.<br /><br />I am running about 30 mph WOT and 4500-4600rpm... what is the norm for this type of boat...(i have a 21 pitch prop)
 

vipzach

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Feb 15, 2005
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1,283
Re: hmm...fat guys?

Your rpm's sound about right, given that everything is in great working order, you could start playing around with different props or maybe smart tabs.
 

crazy charlie

Vice Admiral
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May 22, 2003
Messages
5,510
Re: hmm...fat guys?

You will need to get a different prop for when you are "pulling " a water skiier.More of a "working" prop is what you will need.Charlie
 

jeff13601

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Apr 30, 2005
Messages
593
Re: hmm...fat guys?

I would say you should be doing somewhere around 35. I dont know a lot about it but I do know you can prop it to gain hole power but you prob lose some top end
 

tommays

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Jul 4, 2004
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6,768
Re: hmm...fat guys?

turning a 21 in pitch with a 120 doesent add up<br /><br />and 4500 WOT at 30 MPH with a 21 also sounds like the tack or speedo is way off<br /><br />normaly you would be doing good to spin a 19 in prop and need a 17 in for skiing only<br /><br /><br />tommays
 

jeff13601

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Apr 30, 2005
Messages
593
Re: hmm...fat guys?

I didnt notice that tommays. How are you turning a 21 at 4500? I have a 120 and I run a 14 by 19 but I use mine for fishing
 

Butch Ammon

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Mar 26, 2004
Messages
249
Re: hmm...fat guys?

I have a 21" on my old Merc 165 I/O. It too takes forever to get me up on skis. But, my daughter (110 lbs soaking wet) popped right up out of the water. Go figure... I haven't run the slalom buoy course in probably 25 years, and doubt I could do it again. With the 21" prop, I've gotten up on two skis and kicked one off and slalomed that way. A 19" would get my up out of the water slalom, which is what I should be looking into also! :) <br /><br />Butch A.
 

Boatin Bob

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Sep 24, 2001
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1,858
Re: hmm...fat guys?

I agree with tommays, a 17in prop will increase his hole shot significantly and should snap the skier up but it will push the WOT RPM's way over the range if the current numbers are correct. Maybe you can borrow a hand held tach and try it to see if your dash one is correct?
 

paulhofius

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Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
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Re: hmm...fat guys?

you say that it doesn't add up? how so? what should the rpms be at? and how would i go about checking my tech?
 

Boatin Bob

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Sep 24, 2001
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Re: hmm...fat guys?

Your RPM's are great (if they are correct) we are just having a hard time believing that your engine is able to swing such a big pitch prop (21) and still reach proper WOT RPM. Just suggesting that maybe the tach might be giving a false reading and to test it I would compare it with another one. I have a small combo tach/dwell meter I use for tune ups, if you have one or can borrow one you can confirm your dash unit.
 

jeff13601

Chief Petty Officer
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Apr 30, 2005
Messages
593
Re: hmm...fat guys?

What they are saying is the prop has such pitch that it is great if you are doing 4500. I have a 120 with a 19 pitch and I know mine wouldnt turn a 21 at 4500 I dont believe. The greater the pitch the harder it turns in the water
 

dixieboater165

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Joined
May 22, 2005
Messages
36
Re: hmm...fat guys?

I doubt those RPMs are right, but assuming almost optimum engine performance what size prop would he need to pull skiers and still maintain the proper RPMs? (not let the RPM's exceed recommended RPMs at WOT) Im a friend of oldbrokeboat, but I don't know anything about prop sizing.
 

jeff13601

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
593
Re: hmm...fat guys?

He cant have it both ways. If he runs a 17 he will get high RPMs fast, but he will go over his 4500 if he is turning that now with a 21
 

gspig

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Jul 7, 2004
Messages
409
Re: hmm...fat guys?

It is possible that he has correct rpm with a 21 prop. I run my 165 mercruser with the same set-up, this works because I have a 120/140 outboard unit. Top speed on my 21' cuddy is 35mph, gps confirmed.
 

bigdaddyofhouse

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
39
Re: hmm...fat guys?

every body hold on now. What is the diameter of your prop. It could be say a 13 1/2" were it might take a 15".So if they dropped down in diameter they could up the pitch to keep the rpm's in range.<br />Correct me if I'm wrong.<br />So if he has the room he could up the diameter and drop the pitch and all should be good,right
 

WSUDERMAN

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 9, 2001
Messages
176
Re: hmm...fat guys?

One more thing to watch here is your top speed. if you drop the pitch on the prop, sure the skier will get up quicker but your top end will be lower. If you are currently getting 30 mph at WOT Slalom ski's like 30-36 mph, the perverbial catch 22...
 

craze1cars

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Dec 26, 2004
Messages
1,822
Re: hmm...fat guys?

Heres the summary the way I see it:<br /><br />Old (inefficient) hull design, fairly heavy 18 foot deep V boat that may have some water soaked into the structure (heavy,) 120 hp motor, struggles to get an adult pound slalomer out of the water, turning 4,500 rpms (on an inaccurate boat tach) at 30mph (on an innacurate boat speedo.) <br /><br />In my mind that pretty well describes exactly what you can expect from this setup, and I doubt you'll do any better.<br /><br />The only thing that I agree doesn't add up is the 21 pitch prop. I just don't think that's possible. Unless, as was already mentioned, it's a real narrow diameter. OR...and nobody has mentioned this yet, but....maybe that 21 pitch prop has been rebuilt and repitched by a prop builder, so it's no longer a 21 but you don't know it.<br /><br />You don't want to lose any top speed because you need at least 30 to slalom, and you don't want to spin much beyond your 4,500, so I wouldn't change anything other than maybe give it a good tuneup if you haven't already, get every last pound out of weight and junk of that boat that's not necessary, and most importantly check your rpms with a real tach, and your speed with a GPS...you might be surprised to find out your numbers are completely different from what you think they are. And don't forget that this is a rather old, underpowered boat to be asking to do this type of work.<br /><br />Not sure how heavy your skiier was, or how long or wide his/her ski was, but that's critical as well. Put a fat man on a short ski (such as one ski off of a "combo" setup that so many people use, which are always too short and narrow to effectively slalom), and he'll be the perfect water drinking anchor. Put that same fat man on a quality 70 inch shaped slalom, and he might just pop right out of the water. And how many people did you have on the boat when he was skiing? 4? WAY too many. Get some people to sit on shore while he skis. All I'm saying in way too many words is that there's a LOT of variables here to consider that may go beyond the boat.<br /><br />For comparison's sake, my 18 foot 1992 Rinker with a 115 hp mercruiser has a 14 1/2 x 17 pitch prop, WOT turns 4,500 at 37 mph (calibrated tach and gps speed), and it also struggles a bit, but manages to get an adult 190 lb slalomer (me) out of the water on a 69 inch HO Charger, which is a fairly wide ski. I've never tried it with more that 3 people on board, and I really don't think I want to. My Rinker is not a very deep V, and is probably a little lighter boat than yours. The reality is simply that 4 cylinder runabouts are not good ski boats, but they work in a pinch if your skiers don't mind the drag & drink method.<br /><br />Good luck, and enjoy!
 
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