Help understanding survey conductivity ratings

void7910

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Sep 7, 2013
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Hello all, I am curious what you make of these lines from a survey I just had performed. I know you can't read into conductivity too much, but would you be concerned? Overall the boat was rated as "average" condition.

In the details/testing:
The fibreglass swim platform was integrated into the transom in good condition during inspection. The secured swim platform presented high conductivity around the fasteners with minor signs of rubbing on deck hull joints. The transom presented high conductivity readings.
High conductivity readings were provided on the stringers where accessible. There were no visible indications of delamination or core separation. Recommend monitoring and repairing as necessary at Owner’s discretion.
In the summary under section - C
“C” refers to suggestions offered for Upgrades or general information as “Other Deficiencies”


Inspection of the hull's wetted surface was partially hindered due to the vessel's position on the trailer. Unexposed areas precluded a thorough inspection. A percussion hammer sounding was performed on the hull's accessible wetted surfaces. Electronic Moisture Testing was limited during the bottom inspection. Further, boat builders utilize various construction materials, fasteners, coatings and composites, many of which will trigger a false positive for moisture. In order to perform an Electronic Moisture Test on a hull's wetted surfaces, the vessel must be dry docked for a minimum of 48 hours and the vessel’s bottom paint & all coatings must be completely removed in the areas to be tested for moisture. It must be understood that Moisture Meters are designed to detect the "conductivity" of substrates; including moisture, among various other conductive materials, and their ability to detect conductivity can be limited by many factors, such as the depth of the conductive material, air space present in-between the laminate and the conductive material, etc. If a more thorough assessment of possible moisture content in the vessel's laminates is desired, it is recommended that a non-destructive Thermal Imaging Survey be performed to the "Infraspection Institute's Standards for the Inspection of Recreational Yachts & Small Craft Constructed of Fibreglass Reinforced Plastic and Composite Materials". Destructive testing may also be considered if a more definitive conclusion regarding possible moisture content is desired.
 

alldodge

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Conductivity deals with a moisture meter readings. If there on the high side it means there is a lot of moisture internally. Moisture in wood and fiberglass means it's water logged and going to need a lot of work
 

QBhoy

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Yeah. It’s generally not great, finding that. But depends what the actual figures were. Also good to know that any surveyor will always see fit to report worst case scenario and usually pessimistically reading for the owner or buyer to peruse over. It’s basically edging on ass covering mostly. Are there signs of osmosis anywhere ? Any mention of moisture readings from the stringers or similar ?
 

dingbat

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I don't see any mention of core samples being taken or conductivity readings specific to the "core" mentioned anywhere.

My inspection report came back with elevated conductivity readings on the hull and transom.

When I asked, the surveyor said that the figures were elevated but well within the range of values expected on a boat keep in the water 3 months at the time.

He said core samples would need to be done to evaluate the condition of the underlaying wood. That was now 20 years ago.

Personally, I would be more concerned with the rubbing of the hull joints
 

void7910

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Sep 7, 2013
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Yeah.. I am extremely confused. When I talked to the surveyor on our quick debrief he basically said all was good except for some minor issues. Even said it’s a boat he would buy. So I was extremely happy with the results.

Today I get the actual report and it mentions high conductivity which I ofc read as high moisture the absolute worst case. That said he added the conductivity finding to the section of least concern (c), a was immediate issues, b was should be fixed and c was upgrades and other things.

So… yeah the text in those two first paragraphs indicate potential issues but the phone call and placing conductivity tests in the area of least concern makes things sound fine or at least inconclusive.

And we’re supposed to be closing the deal tomorrow and I can’t get ahold of the surveyor to clarify. Fun times.
 

tpenfield

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Translating to normal speak . . .
  • The swim platform showed higher levels of moisture around the fasteners
  • The transom show higher signs of moisture
  • The stringers, where accessible, showed signed of elevated moisture, but there were no signs of delamination.
There was some percussion testing of the hull, but moisture testing was not available since the boat was not out of the water for long enough time,
 

void7910

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Thanks for the translation. The boat had been in the water for the season but was removed on Friday and tested on Monday. That should be long enough? That said, when they pulled it out apparently it was pouring rain.
 

tpenfield

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Not sure I follow…. Surveyor covering his butt just in case?
Marine surveys have a lot of 'boiler plate' in them that essentially protects the surveyor from repercussions in case something is overlooked or more significant than stated. It's a normal thing.

I usually focus on the findings and recommendations sections of the survey and decide for myself if the boat is a keeper. It is interesting that the surveyor would tell you that he would buy that boat. Usually they avoid such a statement.

You did not mention the boat nor age, so the statement of the boat being in 'average' condition and having some elevated moisture issues generally means that those issues are typical of a boat of its age.

When I bought my Formula 330, the surveyor found elevated moisture in the main bulkhead. The recommendation was to 'monitor it'. A year or 2 later, after taking some core samples, I decided to cut out and replace the bulkhead, which proved to be the right thing to do as it revealed a fuel tank integrity issue that was not apparent during the survey. The bulkhead moisture was merely a symptom and not the problem.

Buying a used boat is a judgement call and just about every used boat has some issues. I've bought 5 used boats over the years and fixed any issues that were either on the survey report or I found myself.
 

void7910

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That’s the interesting part, the boat is a 2020. So moisture, I assume, shouldn’t be average for iit’s age. In addition it’s listed as having a “fibreglass stringer system” so not even sure there’s any wood to rot or foam to soak. Not a bad idea to focus on the recommendations; which is (to me) where it gets interesting.

Category A: Deficiencies noted under “SAFETY” , These findings represent an endangerment to personnel and/or the vessel’s safe and proper operating condition.

Category B: Deficiencies noted under “ATTENTION” should be corrected in the near future so as to maintain standards and to help the vessel retain its value.

Category C: Deficiencies noted under “OTHER DEFICIENCIES” may be addressed at the Owner’s convenience to maintain or improve the vessel’s usability and/ or value.

The last paragraph I quoted under Category C and it’s not even a recommendation it’s “if a more thorough inspection of moisture content …is desired. Whereas the other deficiencies mostly all start with “Recommend…”
 

tpenfield

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Hard for us to provide much more advice, not fully knowing the details (what boat is this?). It would appear that the surveyor is identifying the moisture, but not considering it critical or a show-stopper.

Post up the report w/ personal information redacted, if you like.
 

void7910

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Hard for us to provide much more advice, not fully knowing the details (what boat is this?). It would appear that the surveyor is identifying the moisture, but not considering it critical or a show-stopper.

Post up the report w/ personal information redacted, if you like.

It’s a 2020 Glastron GTS 205. Thank you for all your input. We are away this week but I can upload a copy when back home.

As I’ve dug more and more into the survey there’s a lot pf evidence it’s a bad copy paste job, so I am not even sure exactly what is this boat and what is from the old report. There are some minor errors like Bravo vs Alpha, 3-blade vs four blade prop etc Then there are some pretty major flags like mentioning a radar arch and trim tabs. This boat has neither. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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QBhoy

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It’s a 2020 Glastron GTS 205. Thank you for all your input. We are away this week but I can upload a copy when back home.

As I’ve dug more and more into the survey there’s a lot pf evidence it’s a bad copy paste job, so I am not even sure exactly what is this boat and what is from the old report. There are some minor errors like Bravo vs Alpha, 3-blade vs four blade prop etc Then there are some pretty major flags like mentioning a radar arch and trim tabs. This boat has neither. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Mmm. So true three most likely to my mind are;
The boat has been massively miss treated for her very short existence, left open to weather at best…or perhaps even sunk/submerged at worst
There is discrepancies and/or sporadic results from the test, perhaps from instrument calibration or even improper use…or environmental influences on the day
Or the cynical man, might wonder if there has been a lazy or poor attempt at adapting a generic survey template to represent the actual condition of the boat in question.
Without blowing trumpets, I write this as a class 2 unlimited motor and steam combined MCA certified and qualified former professional marine engineer…who just recently, on the side…is keeping his hand in by undertaking a distance learning surveying diploma just imminently. Any survey similar I’ve been aware of recently, should accompany any such mention of moisture warnings, with an actual figure percentile indicative of what’s going on. Usually up to 15% might be considered acceptable for a boat that age and assumed normal history and usage.
 

void7910

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Hey FleetAdmiral. As far as I know she’s been at dock with covers on in the summer and stored in a heated area in the winter. We actually saw a 2019 of the same make/model and that had been abused and it was very evident from the condition of the interior. Sinking hadn’t crossed my mind but the cushions all seem fine no signs of having been water logged, no odd water lines, no odd rust on engine. For what is worth the transom core is exposed around the outdrive cutout and it feels like foam and bone dry. I would expect a consistently wet transom to be well, consistently wet. :)

I did also find it odd there were no mention of any levels or actual readings anywhere in the report. It also doesn’t mention if the readings were consIstent or isolated to areas, except for the swim platform. After talking to seller the surveyor also failed to the clean the surfaces before taking reading and the boat has a fair amount of crud on it from sitting in the water this year. Not sure how much that plays in.

With all the inconsistencies in the report at this point I am going off our conversation more so. I am going to reach back out about the state of the report.
 
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